BAD NEWS - Velvet Strain Survives 1.75 PPM Copper!

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by 4FordFamily, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. drstardust

    drstardust Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Yeah, this is really bad. Here's to hoping it doesn't become more common.
     
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  2. mcpeachy

    mcpeachy Active Member

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    is copper power safe up until 2.5? what is the max therapeautic range? i dont see an answer anywhere for this. i know cupramine is dangerous at .8 but i haven't seen an upper limit for dangerous with copper power.
     
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  3. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I’d say north of 2.5 is dangerous and the lower the better. Cloudy water and copper poisoning symptoms are more likely the higher the concentration. Right now we are using 2.0-2.25 as the range with good luck.
     
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  4. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    For those of us who do 30 days of copper would you still recommend 2.0 - 2.25 PPM?
     
  5. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes. I have to assume that if 14 days of 1.75 didn't work, 30 days wouldn't either. If it didn't kill it in 14, why would 16 more days at an assumedly "no longer therapeutic level" work?

    Perhaps it would, but this my own view.
     
  6. mcpeachy

    mcpeachy Active Member

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    yeah, i've been confused...some people do 30 days right? i haven't been understanding whether that's because its chelated or not.
     
  7. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    The 30 day is for people who don’t have a second tank to do the Tank Transfer. I only have one tank so I do copper for 30 days. Just wanted to check on the levels since over 2.00 in the past was considered pushing it.
     
  8. MnFish1

    MnFish1 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    this is a valid assumption - but it goes against evidence...
     
  9. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Who’s evidence?
     
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  10. mcpeachy

    mcpeachy Active Member

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    i have 2.2 copper power in my tank....hopefully ok. i dont think tank transfer would be easy for me either.
     
  11. TheHarold

    TheHarold Valuable Member R2R Supporter

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    Just went through this thread a bit. Didn’t I read before that you’ve never used copper, nor deal with delicate species? Seems kind of condescending/hypocritical for you to constantly try to correct people with much more experience.
     
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  12. MnFish1

    MnFish1 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes it would seem condescending if that were true - but - its not. I have used copper multiple times 20 years ago - and it would also seem condescending if I didnt have a graduate degree in microbiology. But - since I have used copper before - and since I ave a graduate degree - and since I can read scientific literature that some may not have access to - I think the anecdotal experience is perhaps not as worthwhile as its claimed to be - since you asked.
     
  13. MnFish1

    MnFish1 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    BTW. you must not have read that I have 2 yellow tangs and a purple tang in my tank now... I can take a picture if you will?
     
  14. MnFish1

    MnFish1 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Im not going to go back and repeat what I've already said. if you feel the desire to do so go ahead. Not trying to be offensive - but - the recommendation from 2 sources (at minimum) is that 2 weeks is not enough. Its repeated multiple times in the literature - and I've quoted it. You have an agenda - keep touting it. Im done. There may be resistant velvet out there - but its far about 2.25 ppm - the rest is duration. Read back if you will:).... Im tired of this discussion
     
  15. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    That makes two of us.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  16. MnFish1

    MnFish1 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    But - you reignited the discussion lol:)..... You cant admit you might be wrong with your protocol. - and in fact you might be right. IDK - but - to automatically dismiss anyone who might question your god-like opinion - is at best intellectually dishonest - at worst - dishonest.

    There is no evidence that you've presented that there is a velvet strain that survives 1.7ppm copper but dies at 2 ppm (I believe - unless you've changed it again) your target. Its just anecdote. There are at least a couple reports out there where velvet are resistant to 2.7 copper - so what is your recommendation based on - your protocol - its merely luck. and good luck you've had - until you lost a bunch of fish and couldn't explain it. Try google next time.
     
  17. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I’ve said I could be wrong literally since the first post.

    The first post’s conclusion (footnote):

    BD1A77BA-07A8-428C-AB05-B59C280EE1C0.png
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019 at 8:36 AM
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  18. DucatiGtr

    DucatiGtr Member

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    so.. i use the salifert color change tester.. I’m assuming it’s garbage. Obviously it’s not 2.0 on the salifert tester?
     
  19. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Sorry I am not understanding your query, sorry!

    But I don’t really trust color charts, lots of human error, at least for me! Tough to read! :)
     
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  20. DucatiGtr

    DucatiGtr Member

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    Oh my bad.. the color chart on the salifert goes to 1 I believe. But they say do not go over .08.. I’m
    Pushing .08 slowly and hoping all works out..
     
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