Basement pump help for a 250 gallon tank.

[Zombie]

I am building a 250 gallon reef aquarium, I have had five setups over the years the largest was a 180.
This one will have a coral grow out system and sumps in the basement.

Need help with pump/s selection because I never had to pump water up from a basement.
I posted this question before but thought this would be a better place to ask.

I am piecing together what I will need for the 250 gallon system. I found two 75 gallon sumps that are drilled and a 40 gallon breeder, all were freebies. I will have to drill the 40 for a refugium. All this is going in the basement. The house has a solid work bench that is perfect for the refugium and two more 40 breeders for grow out systems in the future. It has space below for one or both of the 75 gallon tanks I will be using for the sump/s. In it I am planing on running a large filter bag, an ASM G2 skimmer. Two Supreme model 18 pumps will feed the reef.

The display upstairs will have two closed loops with two Gen-X/ Mak-4 PCX40 1190 gph pumps I have the pumps just sitting in a closet. I am running the same lights I have now.

I am still debating if I would be better off with 3 or 4 Hydor Koralia 4 powerheads instead of closed loops because I don't want to drill the display tank.

I may use the Gen X pumps for the frag tanks and water change pump.

Is there a better single pump for the display with low energy consumption that can fit my needs?
The sump has a hole for a large bulkhead.
The biggest concern is power consumption over the years.
I also want max flow through the boxes.
What do you guys think?

 

[Murfman]

Well, I have a 300 and run two Darts on a closed loop and a Dart for a return. I also have A full size and Nano Wave box, in the DT and an MP40. It is a full mixed reef. It is the 300, my 125 sump/fuge and another 22 gallon Frag tank that runs off the return from the DT.

 

[jagermeister]

If you're concerned about power consumption then I would suggest using only enough pump to achieve your goal which would be cycling water from your display through your sump. Also, I think it would be best to size a pump for your system rather than arbitrarily picking a pump. When I sized my pump for my system, which also utilizes a basement sump, I was surprised at how small a pump I could have to achieve what I wanted. I ended up with a Panworld pump that maxes out at 90 watts. And since I have a lot of head pressure on it, it uses less energy than that, probably in the 60-70 watt range. Kinda like leaving a 75w lightbulb on all the time.

You say you want max flow through your boxes, which I'm guessing is your sump? From what I've read, I believe you only want from 1x to 5x turnover rate per hour through the sump. You don't want a really fast turnover rate through your sump as you won't get enough contact time between the water and your media, skimmer, etc. Less turnover rate correlates to a smaller pump and less energy consumption.

Also, use larger pipe between the sump and display. In my system I'm using 1.5" pvc. Larger pipe reduces head loss associated with friction.

I can't remember where I saw them but there's some design programs associated with various reef sites where you can enter your wanted flow rate and system head loss and the program will spit out various pumps that will work with your system. You might do a search for them and see if they can help you out.

hth

 

[Troylee]

I would use a dart for the return from the basement... As for the display stick with power heads for lowest power consumption and best flow.... I would use tunze or vortecs if the budget allows....

 

[milkman]

I think your main question was a return pump that can service the display from the basement. A Dart has a shutoff head height of 12 ft, so probably not an option. You can look at Reeflo pressure rated pumps like a Tarpon or Wahoo.

For my basement 75 gal sump, I went with the Pan World 250PS to circulate my 200 gal system with a head height of about 15 ft. BRS handles this line as well as others. Mine has been going over two years without any issues.

 

[Zombie]

I already have 3 Hydor Koralia 4 powerheads. So That is why I was going to use them instead of closed loops. I just want at least 1100 GPH at the display and through my sump. By boxes I mean over flow boxes. But I know slower is quieter. I want quiet in the living room.

No noise at all would be ideal.

I have two Gen-X/ Mak-4 PCX40 1190 gph pumps just sitting here but I don't think I will have enough head pressure.

Jagermeister
What size 90 watt Panworld pump are you using?
Is it equivalent to my Gen-X pumps?
I was thinking of using both of them, one for each return.
Would this be enough?
One benefit of having two is if one fails, the tank will still run on one.

 

[Troylee]

What does your head pressure look like?? How many feet is it from the basement to where the return hits the display?

 

[Zombie]

Basement floor up to the top of the tank about 17 feet. I am not in the house yet so I can only guess.
I am going to run all hose to eliminate a lot of elbows, bends, drag and best of all...money.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I just set up my 180 with a sump in the basement i use a reeflo hammerhead hybrid , The nice thing is these pumps are designed if you throttle them back they use less electric

 

[1tyme]

Reeflo !

Im using a reeflo Marlin to run my whole system. DT Frag tank Reactors and all. U can go to bulk reef and check out specs on pumps. I love the kiss idea. One pump one issue. Multiple pumps Multiple possible issues. O and I drain my overflow direct to refuig then into sump. Control flow with valve or gate. Best of luck with build. God Bless.:wink:

 

[GAtroutbum]

This may help some...

ReeFlo Tarpon Pump Performance Curve ReeFlo Wahoo Pump Performance Curve ReeFlo Marlin Pump Performance Curve

 

[redtop03]

with the Tarpoon and 15 ft of head pressure,looks like about 840 gph at about 180 watts of power
with the Wahoo...15 ft of head pressure,looks to be about 1320 gph at about 290 watts of power
with the Marlin....15 ft of head pressure.....about 1680 gph at about 360 watts of power

I believe of those 3,I'd go with the Wahoo and throttle it back but,IMO,the Tarpoon would be plenty

 

[gilmour01]

I just set up my 180 with a sump in the basement i use a reeflo hammerhead hybrid , The nice thing is these pumps are designed if you throttle them back they use less electric

+1 i have a similar setup and use a hammerhead to run everything.

 

[Zombie]

I got the sumps today. They will be attached together with one having baffles and a refugium the other with a skimmer. I was going to use an ASM G2 skimmer. Is there a better choice. These are large sumps 4'X1' 5" so I can put a huge skimmer in there. Each sump will have a return from the display with a filter bag.

 

[Zombie]

Like this.

 

[Troylee]

That won't work... You need the drain into the tank with the skimmer... As for what skimmer to get??? What's the total water volume ad stock list look like??

 

[Zombie]

I run tanks without skimmers and I think you can over skim a reef tank. I may not even run a bag in the refugium sump.

About 500 gallons 10 or more fish SPS and lps corals.
I just want to know what the best skimmers are for larger systems.

I have used the ASM G2 G3 and G4 skimmers and they work nice.
Is there something better?

 

[Troylee]

To me your just gonna be skimming a dead zone... With the return sucking like that the water will never change in your sump with the skimmer... I would eliminate the second sump and skimmer if that's your thinking... I can't see that cycling water it will be a dead zone if the return don't suck it dry... Why not run the drain into the skimmer tank??? If your worried about over skimming which is impossible you can only remove 30 percent of docs at best... Buy a under rated skimmer and run your drain into the skimmer tank...

 

[Zombie]

The water will pass over to the refugium sump from the skimmer sump. The tanks are connected together in the middle.
Also if both overflows go into one side there will not be enough of a diameter hole for all the water volume to flow over to the refugium side.
I am limited by the way the tanks are drilled. I am running two sumps because I am going to have coral grow out systems tied into this system in the basement and I need the extra surface area for power off over flow. The only systems that will not be connected will be my QT systems and a stand alone coral frag system.

The coral frag system will be running on my 30 gallon refugium.

 

[Troylee]

Yeah I see that but what I see is a filter sock with the drain right at the bulkhead where the tanks connect.. If that's the case the return will suck that water right through your fuge and the skimmer sump will be a dead zone and the skimmer won't turn over any new water... Just my theory and thinking anyways... Maybe I'm wrong... Does that make sense to you??? Nothing is pushing water into the skimmer sump so how will it work???