happyhourhero
Burner of the Tips
I plan to still use bayer as my primary dip for corals. Have not noticed anything negative so far. Would be interested in what becomes of this thread though.
Bayer pesticide as a coral dip...stop it! smh
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hawkinsrgk
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hybridazn
Acro killer.....
I'm not sure I am following this thread correctly. OP states it's toxic (which it is obviously) and that he had deaths because of it. Meanwhile lots of other hobbiest's/vendors use it as a dip and have no ill side effects because of it when dipped and RINSED properly.
It seems like this should fall under "user error" than don't use because the product is toxic (which again, it obviously is)
It seems like this should fall under "user error" than don't use because the product is toxic (which again, it obviously is)
WilRams
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm not sure I'm following here... If someone has to have cited research to respond or have any claim in this thread then what are we really doing here?
Of course it's toxic. That's the point...
Of course it's toxic. That's the point...
James J
Community Member
That's a lot of big words,way over my head but I've used coral rx,all out,Bayer,peroxide and all of them killed pods on the coral or frag.Just curious if Bayer is the only dip that stays on the coral after dipping?if I dip a coral I do it for a reason and not taking a chance on putting it back in dt not knowing if all is good.this is why you quarantine but most of us don't
I can't speak for the OP, but I originally interpreted his observation that the bayer dip would not be eliminated via normal dips and that the levels contained residually by the coral/rock were enough to affect our tanks. If that's the case, than my previous observations still stand.
If it's simply about bayer being toxic, then yes, I agree that's a fantastic attribute if you intend to kill something.
If it's simply about bayer being toxic, then yes, I agree that's a fantastic attribute if you intend to kill something.
Salty1962
Wrasse and SPS Lover
I have not used Bayer as my primary dip but have been debating it. I curious as to what ratios people are using for the dip? As with any type of dip we use there are certain precautions that must be adhered to and wanted to know what that is for the Bayer.
The primary purpose of any coral dip is to kill and/or remove pests eg AEFW. One might presume it to therefore be toxic to provide the lethal dose to effect pests.
It is a long time since I reviewed Bayer. I believe it is destroyed/broken down by light and in water but more slowly in water.
It is a potent insecticide and should be used with caution and awareness. I certainly would prefer to use something less toxic to the environment and to potentially myself although I am unaware of another treatment equal in effect
It is a long time since I reviewed Bayer. I believe it is destroyed/broken down by light and in water but more slowly in water.
It is a potent insecticide and should be used with caution and awareness. I certainly would prefer to use something less toxic to the environment and to potentially myself although I am unaware of another treatment equal in effect
robby2782
Well-Known Member
Same here. Never had a loss from dipping in Bayer.
chefjpaul
2500 Club Member
I use it constantly.
It's very toxic, hence why it works in any animal with a nervous system and not corals themselves.
I agree with the above statements that IF user error, (not rinsing etc), is probably a good reason for failure.
**I do wish there was regulations for our "normal" products to have proper labeling and ingredient lists.
It's very toxic, hence why it works in any animal with a nervous system and not corals themselves.
I agree with the above statements that IF user error, (not rinsing etc), is probably a good reason for failure.
**I do wish there was regulations for our "normal" products to have proper labeling and ingredient lists.
hybridazn
Acro killer.....
I use 10ml of bayer/4oz of tank water, but I've used upwards of 20ml of bayer/4oz of water with no ill effects.
redfishbluefish
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The one thing I haven't seen in this thread is discussion on dosing amounts. I brought this up in THIS post a couple months ago and found that folks were all over the map on the amount of Bayer they were using. Here is the re-post of my summary, editorial and potential cause of issues with Bayer.
SUMMARY OF RESPONSES (mls of Bayer per 100 mls of tank water)
Redfishbluefish..........1
BryanS4.....................Skim Milk
icecool2......................5
Rsaalman...................2.1
kschweer....................1+
dbl..............................8.3
HM3105 (1)................5
HM3105 (2)...............8.3
hawkinsrgk................8.3
vic67..........................Skim Milk
Waboss.....................Weak Skim Milk
Joker..........................White Water
ihavecrabs.................2.1 - 2.5
mrcoffee2.................8.3
EDITORIAL
I've been using Bayer since 2012 and came up with the dose I'm using (1ml/100mls tank water) from THIS VIDEO from GuyWalker1219, that was uploaded Aug., 2011. In this video he used 0.8mls Bayer per 100 mls, and since a number of others had posted higher dosage uses, I upped my dose to 1 ml just to make it simple. Note that he had shown that at this 0.8 ml dose he was killing "AEFW, Montibranch's, Red Bugs and all other know pests." Ideally I would have liked to have seen a study that showed effective dose to kill 99% of the pests, but that just hasn't been done. In my mind's eye, the dosage amount could potentially be lowered if this kind of study was done.
Knock on wood, I have never had an issue with pests using Bayer, and only lost one coral, which I'm 95 percent sure that the loss was from shipment time and not the dip. So my experience at 1ml/100mls has shown me that it is certainly an effective dose that has minimal if any impact on the health of the coral. I have also never seen any negative effects on the tank when the corals were placed after the dip/rinse. With that said, I'd like to review what I consider proper dipping procedures.
1. Inspect the coral for any visual pests....looking specifically for eggs.
2. If applicable, remove the coral from the plug. Do not dip the plug (only if it's plastic)
3. Using tank water, mix the dip. I typically make 300 mls if I have 1 to 4 corals to dip.
4. Dip the coral for a period of time, with occasional swishing/swirling. I typically dip for 15 minutes.
5. Rinse the coral in another small container using tank water, and let it sit in rinse water for 3-5 minutes.
6. Repeat rinse with another change of water. Do not return any rinse water to the tank...it gets dumped down the sink.
7. Remount frag to a new plug or glue directly into the tank.
REPORTED ISSUES WITH BAYER
Some have reported tank effects once the dipped coral has been placed into their tank. Sufficient information has not been supplied to directly identify the cause of why this is happening. However, I'm going to give some plausable explainations why this might be happening. Just to state, Bayer should NEVER be used directly in your tank or on live rock. It is a poison to many creatures we keep. Accordingly, you don't want any Bayer to get into your tank, and do whatever you need to do to keep it out. Here are hypotheses of why some have seen tank issues:
1. The plug was left on the frag when dipping and became saturated with dip solution that is not completely rinsed off during the rinsing process. It slowly leaches back out once placed in the tank.
2. The dosage is so high that the coral absorbs excessive amounts of dip that do not immediately rinse off and again, slowly leach back out once placed in the tank.
This is one of the concerns I have with those using what I consider very high levels of Bayer. If 0.8 mls per 100 work, why raise that up over 10 fold to 8.3 mls per 100. I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but believe that they could cause for levels of Bayer showing up in your DT, especially if you're dipping a bunch of corals.
SUMMARY OF RESPONSES (mls of Bayer per 100 mls of tank water)
Redfishbluefish..........1
BryanS4.....................Skim Milk
icecool2......................5
Rsaalman...................2.1
kschweer....................1+
dbl..............................8.3
HM3105 (1)................5
HM3105 (2)...............8.3
hawkinsrgk................8.3
vic67..........................Skim Milk
Waboss.....................Weak Skim Milk
Joker..........................White Water
ihavecrabs.................2.1 - 2.5
mrcoffee2.................8.3
EDITORIAL
I've been using Bayer since 2012 and came up with the dose I'm using (1ml/100mls tank water) from THIS VIDEO from GuyWalker1219, that was uploaded Aug., 2011. In this video he used 0.8mls Bayer per 100 mls, and since a number of others had posted higher dosage uses, I upped my dose to 1 ml just to make it simple. Note that he had shown that at this 0.8 ml dose he was killing "AEFW, Montibranch's, Red Bugs and all other know pests." Ideally I would have liked to have seen a study that showed effective dose to kill 99% of the pests, but that just hasn't been done. In my mind's eye, the dosage amount could potentially be lowered if this kind of study was done.
Knock on wood, I have never had an issue with pests using Bayer, and only lost one coral, which I'm 95 percent sure that the loss was from shipment time and not the dip. So my experience at 1ml/100mls has shown me that it is certainly an effective dose that has minimal if any impact on the health of the coral. I have also never seen any negative effects on the tank when the corals were placed after the dip/rinse. With that said, I'd like to review what I consider proper dipping procedures.
1. Inspect the coral for any visual pests....looking specifically for eggs.
2. If applicable, remove the coral from the plug. Do not dip the plug (only if it's plastic)
3. Using tank water, mix the dip. I typically make 300 mls if I have 1 to 4 corals to dip.
4. Dip the coral for a period of time, with occasional swishing/swirling. I typically dip for 15 minutes.
5. Rinse the coral in another small container using tank water, and let it sit in rinse water for 3-5 minutes.
6. Repeat rinse with another change of water. Do not return any rinse water to the tank...it gets dumped down the sink.
7. Remount frag to a new plug or glue directly into the tank.
REPORTED ISSUES WITH BAYER
Some have reported tank effects once the dipped coral has been placed into their tank. Sufficient information has not been supplied to directly identify the cause of why this is happening. However, I'm going to give some plausable explainations why this might be happening. Just to state, Bayer should NEVER be used directly in your tank or on live rock. It is a poison to many creatures we keep. Accordingly, you don't want any Bayer to get into your tank, and do whatever you need to do to keep it out. Here are hypotheses of why some have seen tank issues:
1. The plug was left on the frag when dipping and became saturated with dip solution that is not completely rinsed off during the rinsing process. It slowly leaches back out once placed in the tank.
2. The dosage is so high that the coral absorbs excessive amounts of dip that do not immediately rinse off and again, slowly leach back out once placed in the tank.
This is one of the concerns I have with those using what I consider very high levels of Bayer. If 0.8 mls per 100 work, why raise that up over 10 fold to 8.3 mls per 100. I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but believe that they could cause for levels of Bayer showing up in your DT, especially if you're dipping a bunch of corals.
Last edited:
StrangeDejavu
Active Member
If that were true, then my small little tank probably should have crashed. I came home with 5 frags last month and dipped them all in Bayer, followed by 10 minute soaks in 5 separate bowls filled with tank water. These frags went in to my BioCube where I observed no change in behavior in my tank in the following days. Pods still crawled all over the glass, I did not see die off like you'd expect if Bayer negatively impacted our tanks.
You're right, it is very toxic.
UC Davis released a study two years ago directly linking prenatal pesticide exposure to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I have a daughter with mild ASD. IMO autism is an epidemic. Humanity as a whole really needs to think about all these toxic chemicals we expose ourselves to daily... in our food, our water, and chemical based medicines.
"Pyrethroids were moderately associated with autism spectrum disorder immediately prior to conception and in the third trimester."
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/8978
I would also like to see labeling and ingredient lists. Coral RX says it has distilled water and a proprietary blend of natural extracts. That's pretty bland and unacceptable.
Sorry to run this thread off track a bit. I'm not judging anyone for using this stuff. My only intent was to share information.
eg8r210
Well-Known Member
Your "bolded" quote does not state what you are saying it states. You are saying it is toxic but the bolded text only says "could have profound consequences". Well you know what, I agree. In my tank alone the profound consequences I have been dealing with are pest free frags going into my tank and acros continuing to grow. I consider it profound because it is easy, works as directed, and acros thrive after removing red bugs, black bugs and AEFW. Profound for sure!!!Did you miss this?
Insecticides and a fungicide affect multiple coral life stages
The extremely high sensitivity of Acropora millepora settlement to a range of insecticides and a fungicide indicates that pesticide contamination of the reef habitat, even by barely detectable concentrations, could have profound consequences for population replenishment.
I hate to say it, but without references cited as to how it's not toxic, you bring a moot point to the table.
JasReef
Active Member
As most are pointing out, the point is that any dip should be toxic enough to kill unwanted pests. Why else would we dip? Aren't they all random compounds?
This is a good discussion but the way the OP worded the title and only wants to respond to "research" makes the whole thing feel a bit like trolling.
maroun.c
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Interesting topic.
Yes it is toxic but so is chemotherapy which we still take at controlled or calculated risks. I would worry more about pesticides sprayed in agriculture and absorbed by plants and fruits we consume.
As to it not being removed by rinses it's mentioned it needs 15 min to be impermeable and resistant to water In it's original use, where we usually rinse earlier. Also being in a controlled environment we can at least dilute it to minute levels by rinsing.
I quarantine after dips and my quarantine is a smaller tank so would have expected to see effects in the quarantine where corals get dipped weakly, yet it's still full of pods.
If indeed it can't be cleaned from corals by water that would be good news and more work has to be done on its lethal doses to corals and maybe about it's ability to kill hatching eggs after few days.
Might be good to dose it in a q tank at much lower dose over couple of weeks.
One last thing about it's effect on coral settlement and microlife. As much as we wish our tanks are close to reefs they're not. Most of the microlife in reefs ain't present in our tanks nor can it live there if added directly anyway. Corals rarely reproduce sexually in our tanks so effect on settlement ain't an issue except maybe for few tanks with pocilopora and that might be a desired effect.
Yes it is toxic but so is chemotherapy which we still take at controlled or calculated risks. I would worry more about pesticides sprayed in agriculture and absorbed by plants and fruits we consume.
As to it not being removed by rinses it's mentioned it needs 15 min to be impermeable and resistant to water In it's original use, where we usually rinse earlier. Also being in a controlled environment we can at least dilute it to minute levels by rinsing.
I quarantine after dips and my quarantine is a smaller tank so would have expected to see effects in the quarantine where corals get dipped weakly, yet it's still full of pods.
If indeed it can't be cleaned from corals by water that would be good news and more work has to be done on its lethal doses to corals and maybe about it's ability to kill hatching eggs after few days.
Might be good to dose it in a q tank at much lower dose over couple of weeks.
One last thing about it's effect on coral settlement and microlife. As much as we wish our tanks are close to reefs they're not. Most of the microlife in reefs ain't present in our tanks nor can it live there if added directly anyway. Corals rarely reproduce sexually in our tanks so effect on settlement ain't an issue except maybe for few tanks with pocilopora and that might be a desired effect.
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