Bipartitus wrasse, solo or haram?

[strangebreu]

So we've found ourselves on the road to fustration once again as my wife decided she wanted a bipartitus (blue star, divided, etc) Wrasse for our new tank. years ago we tried this and it became a never ending quest. we bought a pair of females (aware of the gender shifts), a female turned to male, killed the female, try another female, killed. then we bought two more females and the male killed both. We gave away the male and gave up. tried again about a year later with 4 females at once. one turned male, but all was well...for a while.... about a year later, the largest female started to turn to male, the semi male and male fought alot and also harassed the females. killed one, then the semi male went back to female. the male killed the other female. we gave him away after that, then the lone female turned back into a male. FUN STORY.

ok so now here we are again a couple years later. bought two Female bipartitus, one never came out of the sand. So, one female, HOWEVER, this time we already have a pair of regular leopard wrasses. not sure on gender but they are very well behaved. everyones getting along swimmingly, do i try to add more females to pre-empt a change in the female OR do i try and just leave it solo and see if a lack of suitable mates will keep it female.

 

[davidcalgary29]

I'm not muslim, but I think all scaled fish are halal. You're good.

 

[Bob Weigant]

Ive always just kept 1

 

[i cant think]

So we've found ourselves on the road to fustration once again as my wife decided she wanted a bipartitus (blue star, divided, etc) Wrasse for our new tank. years ago we tried this and it became a never ending quest. we bought a pair of females (aware of the gender shifts), a female turned to male, killed the female, try another female, killed. then we bought two more females and the male killed both. We gave away the male and gave up. tried again about a year later with 4 females at once. one turned male, but all was well...for a while.... about a year later, the largest female started to turn to male, the semi male and male fought alot and also harassed the females. killed one, then the semi male went back to female. the male killed the other female. we gave him away after that, then the lone female turned back into a male. FUN STORY.

ok so now here we are again a couple years later. bought two Female bipartitus, one never came out of the sand. So, one female, HOWEVER, this time we already have a pair of regular leopard wrasses. not sure on gender but they are very well behaved. everyones getting along swimmingly, do i try to add more females to pre-empt a change in the female OR do i try and just leave it solo and see if a lack of suitable mates will keep it female.

You’re likely to have more success if you just keep the two. What tank size is it? Harems of the larger wrasses generally only work in tanks 4’ or larger IME.

 

[strangebreu]

red sea 650 peninsula, roughly 150gal 5' long both sides are swimmable. previous experience was in a 6' 125.

 

[strangebreu]

Ive always just kept 1

and it didnt change?

 

[Bob Weigant]

and it didnt change?

nope

 

[OrionN]

I had/having success with keeping harem of Leopard wrasse, but only keep M. meleagris and M. negrosensis. I think size of the tank is the determine factor. You and your wife have been down this road before multiple times at that. Why try again unless you want to punish the species or punish yourselves.
Perhaps you can take this opportunity to upgrade and get larger tank. "Wifey, if you want a harem of THAT wrasse, we just got to get a larger tank or WWIII in the current tank". In my 420 gal and 320 gal tanks, harems of Leopard wrasse did/doing just fine.

 

[strangebreu]

nope

Interesting, there was a lfs by me that used to have one solo that never seemed to change, wonder if that’s the trick.
Trouble for me is the 2nd one survived. Funny thing we thought there was only one apparently one woke up early and went to sleep midday, the other woke up midday and went to sleep late. just saw the two together last night

 

[Tamberav]

So we've found ourselves on the road to fustration once again as my wife decided she wanted a bipartitus (blue star, divided, etc) Wrasse for our new tank. years ago we tried this and it became a never ending quest. we bought a pair of females (aware of the gender shifts), a female turned to male, killed the female, try another female, killed. then we bought two more females and the male killed both. We gave away the male and gave up. tried again about a year later with 4 females at once. one turned male, but all was well...for a while.... about a year later, the largest female started to turn to male, the semi male and male fought alot and also harassed the females. killed one, then the semi male went back to female. the male killed the other female. we gave him away after that, then the lone female turned back into a male. FUN STORY.

ok so now here we are again a couple years later. bought two Female bipartitus, one never came out of the sand. So, one female, HOWEVER, this time we already have a pair of regular leopard wrasses. not sure on gender but they are very well behaved. everyones getting along swimmingly, do i try to add more females to pre-empt a change in the female OR do i try and just leave it solo and see if a lack of suitable mates will keep it female.

I kept a solo.. it stayed female for many years. It eventually turned but took awhile. It was peaceful as a female but definitely a bit of a bully now to new fish. Any fish… doesn’t matter if it’s a wrasse or a goby.

Considering how many times you have failed, I would not be trying to keep multiples. It doesn’t work for most wrasse.

 

[strangebreu]

I have success with keeping harem of Leopard wrasse, but only keep M. meleagris and M. negrosensis. I think size of the tank is the determine factor. You and your wife have been down this road before multiple times at that. Why try again unless you want to punish the species or punish yourselves.
Perhaps you can take this opportunity to upgrade and get larger tank. "Wifey, if you want a harem of THAT wrasse, we just got to get a larger tank or WWIII in the current tank". In my 420 gal and 320 gal tanks, harems of Leopard wrasse did/doing just fine.

Haha well played, first we need the bigger house. As for the wrasses, it’s been about four or five years since we tried, realistically my stance was perhaps a larger tank(with a better layout) with other wrasses might help. If one starts to change it’ll be immediately removed and brought to my lfs. Not interested in letting anything die but trial and error is the name of the game isn’t it? In the very least they’ll be healthy and fat by the time they leave the tank

 

[strangebreu]

I kept a solo.. it stayed female for many years. It eventually turned but took awhile. It was peaceful as a female but definitely a bit of a bully now to new fish. Any fish… doesn’t matter if it’s a wrasse or a goby.

Wow never had issues with other fish, these are probably the last additions to the tank minus an Achilles tang if I ever get the balls to pull the trigger.

 

[OrionN]

Nuptial and non nuptial coloration of my male leopards. Don’t have to one of my black leopard on the phone. Will edit ad add it later. Added.
I am alway interested in behaior sid eof reef keeping. Keeping breeding units of smaller reef fish is the best way of studying fish behavior without don on a SCUBA suite.

 

[Tamberav]

Wow never had issues with other fish, these are probably the last additions to the tank minus an Achilles tang if I ever get the balls to pull the trigger.

Ya, I tried to add a neon goby and a fang blenny and it didn’t end well. The male leopard chased them all over. The goby ended up living right next to my clowns and their BTA for protection.

I was however able to sneak in a tailspot blenny somehow. Maybe it’s brown coloration and how they hide in holes made it less obvious.

 

[OrionN]

I think the most important factors are tank size and food. However, the Star Leopard is reputed to be the most aggressive of the Leopards. I have not keep one. Seen a harem of them in LFS before. No problem there.

 

[Bob Weigant]

Interesting, there was a lfs by me that used to have one solo that never seemed to change, wonder if that’s the trick.
Trouble for me is the 2nd one survived. Funny thing we thought there was only one apparently one woke up early and went to sleep midday, the other woke up midday and went to sleep late. just saw the two together last night

Maybe I should have included in my comment that I do have a male leopard that was added a few months later. Not really sure if that played a part or not

 

[OrionN]

…… HOWEVER, this time we already have a pair of regular leopard wrasses. not sure on gender but they are very well behaved. everyones getting along swimmingly,……

It is really easy to tell male from female Meleagris. When they change sex the colors and pattern change is clear. It seems to me the most important is the marking is the red spot on the front of the dorsal fin. This spot become really bright and display well with nuptial dance. Pictures above was that of my healthy male Meleagris. Some picture of non-optimal (health wise) pictures of male Meleagris shows faded colors. I am sure you already know what the female looks like.

FWIW, I don’t have much problem with getting any of my wrasses to change sex in my tank. I had a harem of 5 Meleagris leopards in my tank for years, NONE of the females change sex to be the second male. I have various wrasse change sex in my tank. The largest Leopard wrasse change sex quickly once reach full size and he suppressed the others from sex change. I always have plenty of food for my fish and all the wrasses are full and fat all the time. I have always tried to document these changes with serial pictures. I am a halfway decent photographer, so I do have good pictures of these changes and posted them on various threads.
Another option for you is to keep harem of more than 2 Meleagris leopards. Their nuptial behaviors are very interesting. Male often loops the females and often swim head down, vertical with fins fully/hyper-extended and iridescence colors displayed as pictures above.

picture of my Meleagris nuptial dance