Black Ich (turbellarians)

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The original post of this thread has been updated with new information.
 

Sailfinguy21

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I had a naso tang with black ich.. he also had ich.. too yea double whammy... 2 months in hyposalinity cleared him up of both.

But the ich died first within the first 2 weekz.. black ich took much longer.. about 4-5 weeks in it finally started to go away.


I HIGHELY recomend against prazi pro on Naso tangs... mine ballooned up like he swallowed a golfball and 2 days in his intestines were coming out of his anus... I thougjt i was going to lose him but a huge water change and carbon and he went back to normal.

I did some digging and i found many otjers had similar results eith prazi and Naso tangs... They dont seen to be able to handle prazipro
 
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Any chance Metroplex and Focus will help regarding black ich?

No; prazi, hypo or formalin are your best options. Fenbendazole probably works as well, but I haven't had a chance to test that out yet.
 
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I should have read this thoroughly before making https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-ick.689824/#post-7073642
I have yellow tang that seems to have black Ick, I did 2 round of GC but it still has black ICK ( 2nd dose was 6days after the 1st dose).

I have another Tang with him ( and a wrasse) in the QT. From what I read it cant spread to other fish ?
Should I only do hypo to my yellow tang who has black ICK ?

"Both species are thought to have a single host life cycle producing several juveniles "

Thanks
 

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@Humblefish @melypr1985 is your comment about the pigment lasting for 30 days with a dead or alive worm? I’ve had a pb tang in qt for 7 weeks. Treated for prazi two rounds and he still has 3 tiny black dots along his fin but on the body. No scratching or twitching. Everything normal except the dots. Just wondering if they are pigments and he is safe to add to dt or I should wait another 30 days. Thank you both so much.
 

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Any experience with New Life Spectrum Hex Shield for black ich?

Unlikely to work, you need an anthelmintic, and hex shield is antiprotozoal.

Jay
 
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What is the lifespan of black ick in a fishless system?

IDK - I've never worried about that, in most cases, it is self-limiting and goes away on its own. This turbellarian has direct development. Noga lists the life cycle as being ~10 days, so I think 20 days would be more than conservative....

Jay
 

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Does anyone know if invertebrates can sustain or transport black ich (moving invertebrates from a tank that has black ich to a new tank? The reason I ask is that I think I got black ich in my QT. In my QT I got invertebrates and fish so in order to medicate I need to move the invertebrates out from tank tank and into my DT. What would be the best way to go about getting my invertebrates from a black ich infested QT to my DT?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Does anyone know if invertebrates can sustain or transport black ich (moving invertebrates from a tank that has black ich to a new tank? The reason I ask is that I think I got black ich in my QT. In my QT I got invertebrates and fish so in order to medicate I need to move the invertebrates out from tank tank and into my DT. What would be the best way to go about getting my invertebrates from a black ich infested QT to my DT?
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yes, black ich / tang turbellarian can be moved tank to tank in water or on invertebrates with water on them. However, regular ich can also, and is much more deadly. You should keep your QT with only fish in it so that you can freely treat fo diseases. Invertebrates need 20 days of no fish in their tank to clear themselves of black ich and up to 76 days for regular ich.
Jay
 

patrikk

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Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yes, black ich / tang turbellarian can be moved tank to tank in water or on invertebrates with water on them. However, regular ich can also, and is much more deadly. You should keep your QT with only fish in it so that you can freely treat fo diseases. Invertebrates need 20 days of no fish in their tank to clear themselves of black ich and up to 76 days for regular ich.
Jay
Thx vlbut for regular ich I do TTM it worked great for me. That why I thought that if I do ttm on invertebrates I would’ve loose all black ich in the water column. I also heard about hypo salinity, can invertebrates handle that ?
 

Jay Hemdal

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No - invertebrates cannot handle hypo at all!

Jay
 
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Black Ich (turbellarians)

What You Need To Know:

* Parasitic flatworm infestation; tangs are most often afflicted.
* Primary symptom is small black dots on the fish. (Not to be confused with Clownfish Hyper-Melanization.)
* Best chemical treatments for this disease are Praziquantel and Formalin. Osmotic shock (Hyposalinity, freshwater dips) is an alternative treatment option.

TangSpots2.jpg
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Additional Information

There are two species of turbellarian flatworms which are known to parasitize marine fish: Paravortex sp. and Piscinquilinus subcutaneus. Paravortex are smaller and appear as grains of black spots rather than lumps. Piscinquilinus are relatively large and lie deep within the dermis. As a result, a pigmented dermis may show once killed, resulting in a black spot, regardless of a living parasite within the skin.

Both species are thought to have a single host life cycle producing several juveniles. This cycle is completed in 10 days although from research by Justine et al. (2009) showed the Piscinquilinus remained on the fish for at least 30 days. Investigations also showed poorly developed reproductive organs indicating maturation once the parasite has left the fish. They then produce a ‘cocoon’ like fibrous structure in the substrate, within which they reproduce and therefore re-infect (Justine et al. 2008).

Treatment Options:
  1. Praziquantel – 2 mg/L single dose for 7 days in a QT. Both Prazipro (2.5 mg/L) and API General Cure (2.0 mg/L) contain sufficient concentrations of praziquantel.
  2. Formalin – 45 to 60 minute bath treatment, followed by transfer into a sterile QT afterwards.
  3. Hyposalinity – Treat at 1.009 SG for at least 10 days. This kills both the infective and free living stages of the life cycle.
  4. Freshwater Dip – 5 minute freshwater dip may only provide temporary relief, and not result in complete eradication.
Thanks for the info. I used API GC and followed their directions with one dose and then another 48 later....is that enough to get these or should I do it again?
 

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So does the worms stick to invertebrates or not? If not then TTM (tank transfer method) should be fine for them (invertebrates) right
No - that won't work the same way. TTM takes advantage of specific timing in the life cycle for Cryptocaryon. Tang turbellarians have a different life cycle, so you would need to adjust the timing.

That said, moving invertebrates from tank to tank reduces the chances of the infection being passed on each time that you do it, so after a couple of moves, the chances they are carrying many parasites at all in minimal, but theoretically still possible.

Jay
 

vetteguy53081

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So does the worms stick to invertebrates or not? If not then TTM (tank transfer method) should be fine for them (invertebrates) right
The black spots on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon and Brooklynella.
Prazi pro not guaranteed to work but Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks. But however you can give the fish a freshwater bath to start with and follow with a formalin bath (general cure works well) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks.
Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic turbellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium and for this reason, I would consider going fallow (72 days of no fish (hosts) in the tank. I personally would go 90 days.
 

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The black spots on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon and Brooklynella.
Prazi pro not guaranteed to work but Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks. But however you can give the fish a freshwater bath to start with and follow with a formalin bath (general cure works well) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat affected fish in quarantine tanks.
Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic turbellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium and for this reason, I would consider going fallow (72 days of no fish (hosts) in the tank. I personally would go 90 days.
Thanks for you reply but I don’t get you answer to my question.
1: the only place I got the black ich is in my QT (bought new fishes and invertebrates) DT does not have black ich

2; my real question is best way to get my invertebrates free from black ich so I can put em into my DT then treat my QT fishes.
When that’s done I will leave my QT free from everything living except bacteria.
 
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