Blue Hippo Tango skin issue

[paulmlloyd]

Hi, unfortunately my Blue Hippo Tang has an issue around his mount. I was Googling different forums and initially thought it was a discolouration from not having enough "greens", as previously it was just a white patch above his mouth . This morning it appears to have broken out into an open wound. I am hoping it is just a scratch or something (he sleeps every night behind some rocks) but am worried it is much worse (am literally distraught about this!). I have attaached photos here, and am reading different things when I go through the forums, so can't work out the exact issue. Unfortunately I don't have a quarantine tank that can be used, so hopefully there is a treatment someone can recommend.

If it helps, I've done a test recently and realised my Silica and Calcium levels are dangerously high. So it might be that it is somehow caused by stress.

Thank you in advance for any help!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, unfortunately my Blue Hippo Tang has an issue around his mount. I was Googling different forums and initially thought it was a discolouration from not having enough "greens", as previously it was just a white patch above his mouth . This morning it appears to have broken out into an open wound. I am hoping it is just a scratch or something (he sleeps every night behind some rocks) but am worried it is much worse (am literally distraught about this!). I have attaached photos here, and am reading different things when I go through the forums, so can't work out the exact issue. Unfortunately I don't have a quarantine tank that can be used, so hopefully there is a treatment someone can recommend.

If it helps, I've done a test recently and realised my Silica and Calcium levels are dangerously high. So it might be that it is somehow caused by stress.

Thank you in advance for any help!!

Welcome to Teef2Reef!

The fish seems to have two different lesions - the ones above each eye are head and lateral line erosion. This is caused by carbon use and sometimes poor diet.
The red coloration of the lesion on the snout is different - that could be a bacterial infection. How long have you had the fish and howling has it had this lesion? Do you have a treatment tank available?
Jay

 

[paulmlloyd]

Thank you very much for the reply Jay. I had a young kid about a year ago and have admittedly been a little lazy with feeding them Nori, so have mainly just done flakes and algae pellets. The tang seemed happy enough but I will start doing Nori more often to improve the diet if this could cause the issue.

I use Red Sea Reef Spec Carbon and replace it every couple of months, which is what the pot of it recommends.

I have had the fish probably about 3 years, maybe a bit longer, and the tank 4 years. It's had discolouration above its mouth for a little bit but definitely not as drastic as in these photos. I previously thought it was just a natural discolouration. This morning it now appears very sore and red, and the skin has definitely come away. Unfortunately I don't have a quarantine tank that I can move it into, and I also have coral and invertebrates, so any medicine would need to be safe for my other fish, coral and invertebrates.

I've just ordered a replacement DD-39W UV bulb to try and help buffer the water. I have also dropped my Triton 2 formula to try and lower the calcium levels (in case this has somehow added to the stress) and I've also put extra Rowaphos in and changed it more than I normally would in case the high Silica levels have caused the issue. Other than that, I have a skimmer, plenty of bio-media and floss as my "cleaners". I've not really done anything different recently that I can think of would cause the lesion to become so much worse over-night.

Any suggestions really are greatly appreciated! It's so sad when your fish get ill / infections ...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you very much for the reply Jay. I had a young kid about a year ago and have admittedly been a little lazy with feeding them Nori, so have mainly just done flakes and algae pellets. The tang seemed happy enough but I will start doing Nori more often to improve the diet if this could cause the issue.

I use Red Sea Reef Spec Carbon and replace it every couple of months, which is what the pot of it recommends.

I have had the fish probably about 3 years, maybe a bit longer, and the tank 4 years. It's had discolouration above its mouth for a little bit but definitely not as drastic as in these photos. I previously thought it was just a natural discolouration. This morning it now appears very sore and red, and the skin has definitely come away. Unfortunately I don't have a quarantine tank that I can move it into, and I also have coral and invertebrates, so any medicine would need to be safe for my other fish, coral and invertebrates.

I've just ordered a replacement DD-39W UV bulb to try and help buffer the water. I have also dropped my Triton 2 formula to try and lower the calcium levels (in case this has somehow added to the stress) and I've also put extra Rowaphos in and changed it more than I normally would in case the high Silica levels have caused the issue. Other than that, I have a skimmer, plenty of bio-media and floss as my "cleaners". I've not really done anything different recently that I can think of would cause the lesion to become so much worse over-night.

Any suggestions really are greatly appreciated! It's so sad when your fish get ill / infections ...

That additional information holds an important key - that the lesion on its mouth has been there, but more recently turned red. That to me means that lesion is also HLLE but that it has gotten irritated or infected. If it is the latter, there is not a good treatment that can be used in a display tank, and if you are in the UK, you may have difficulty getting antibiotics.
I don’t think the water quality is the primary issue here, but perhaps it is causing irritation to the open lesion? UV won’t hurt, but it also won’t help in cases like this.
Jay

 

[paulmlloyd]

That additional information holds an important key - that the lesion on its mouth has been there, but more recently turned red. That to me means that lesion is also HLLE but that it has gotten irritated or infected. If it is the latter, there is not a good treatment that can be used in a display tank, and if you are in the UK, you may have difficulty getting antibiotics.
I don’t think the water quality is the primary issue here, but perhaps it is causing irritation to the open lesion? UV won’t hurt, but it also won’t help in cases like this.
Jay

Thanks again, Jay. Really appreciate your help. That all makes sense and they have had those lesions a while (I must admit I didn't realise they were lesions and thought they were just strange patterns or pigment issues). I'll improve the water quality but other than that, without a quarantine tank, it sounds like you're not aware of any anti-biotics that can go in a display tank to treat head and lateral line erosion disease? I'll keep Googling and searching forums to see if I can find anything UK based that is display tank friendly.

Do you happen to know whether this is the sort of thing the fish could recover from?

https://www.hackersreef.com/hlle-head-lateral-line-erosion-treatment/

It appears from this article that HLLE isn't contagious, and I just need to improve the water, and feed vitamin enriched nori more, and that may resolve the issue.

It also sounds like it's the infection that could cause an issue here and be fatal to the fish, so I'll definitely be searching for anti-biotics :(

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I would get some Selcon and SFB Frozen food Variety pack. Keep the Selcon in the Refrigerator, once opened. Five to seven drops of Selcon on a cube of food, let it soak in while thawing. Feed your fish, including the Tang this. I only feed the Selcon every two to four days, as Selcon is a Fat Based Vitamin Formula. There is a question, that it can cause fatty liver disease. On off days I feed the Emerald Cube, or Sea Veggies. BTW I have a Rescued Yellow Tang, and the HLLE is barely noticeable. This is not an overnight cure, as it’s been 5-1/2 months of treatment.

 

[paulmlloyd]

That additional information holds an important key - that the lesion on its mouth has been there, but more recently turned red. That to me means that lesion is also HLLE but that it has gotten irritated or infected. If it is the latter, there is not a good treatment that can be used in a display tank, and if you are in the UK, you may have difficulty getting antibiotics.
I don’t think the water quality is the primary issue here, but perhaps it is causing irritation to the open lesion? UV won’t hurt, but it also won’t help in cases like this.
Jay

I've read online that Melafix is DT safe and readily available in the UK. Have you happened to have used this before?

 

[paulmlloyd]

I would get some Selcon and SFB Frozen food Variety pack. Keep the Selcon in the Refrigerator, once opened. Five to seven drops of Selcon on a cube of food, let it soak in while thawing. Feed your fish, including the Tang this. I only feed the Selcon every two to four days, as Selcon is a Fat Based Vitamin Formula. There is a question, that it can cause fatty liver disease. On off days I feed the Emerald Cube, or Sea Veggies. BTW I have a Rescued Yellow Tang, and the HLLE is barely noticeable. This is not an overnight cure, as it’s been 5-1/2 months of treatment.

Thank you! I will try that. Currently I have a bottle of Aquaforest Fish V that I put a couple of drops onto the Nori before feeding. Hopefully this will work and it doesn't die from the infection first!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks again, Jay. Really appreciate your help. That all makes sense and they have had those lesions a while (I must admit I didn't realise they were lesions and thought they were just strange patterns or pigment issues). I'll improve the water quality but other than that, without a quarantine tank, it sounds like you're not aware of any anti-biotics that can go in a display tank to treat head and lateral line erosion disease? I'll keep Googling and searching forums to see if I can find anything UK based that is display tank friendly.

Do you happen to know whether this is the sort of thing the fish could recover from?

https://www.hackersreef.com/hlle-head-lateral-line-erosion-treatment/

It appears from this article that HLLE isn't contagious, and I just need to improve the water, and feed vitamin enriched nori more, and that may resolve the issue.

It also sounds like it's the infection that could cause an issue here and be fatal to the fish, so I'll definitely be searching for anti-biotics :(

I’m at a conference and am running out the door, but here is a link to my article on HLLE hat is based on my 2011 paper:

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[paulmlloyd]

I’m at a conference and am running out the door, but here is a link to my article on HLLE hat is based on my 2011 paper:

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks again for your help, Jay. I managed to find some anti-biotics that did the trick and have put a load of vitamins and nori back into his diet, and he (touch all the wood I can find) seems to have recovered! Unfortunately a number of corals (zoas in particular) have taken a hit but I was more concerned about my fish anyway! Thanks again - greatly appreciated.

 

[cesar 89]

Welcome to Teef2Reef!

The fish seems to have two different lesions - the ones above each eye are head and lateral line erosion. This is caused by carbon use and sometimes poor diet.
The red coloration of the lesion on the snout is different - that could be a bacterial infection. How long have you had the fish and howling has it had this lesion? Do you have a treatment tank available?
Jay

Hi Jay,

I believe you’re very experienced and knowledgeable, and I really hope you’ll see my message soon. I’m quite worried about my injured Blue Tang and not sure how to help him recover. I noticed he's hurt, but I can’t figure out what exactly happened or how serious it is.


If anyone else happens to see this and has any experience or advice on how to treat an injured Blue Tang, I’d deeply appreciate your help. Thank you so much in advance!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,

I believe you’re very experienced and knowledgeable, and I really hope you’ll see my message soon. I’m quite worried about my injured Blue Tang and not sure how to help him recover. I noticed he's hurt, but I can’t figure out what exactly happened or how serious it is.


If anyone else happens to see this and has any experience or advice on how to treat an injured Blue Tang, I’d deeply appreciate your help. Thank you so much in advance!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

How long has your tang had this?
Did it appear suddenly, or did it grow in size over time?
Is your tang showing any other symptoms, like not eating, swimming changes, etc.

This looks like a tail strike from another tang.

 

[cesar 89]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

How long has your tang had this?
Did it appear suddenly, or did it grow in size over time?
Is your tang showing any other symptoms, like not eating, swimming changes, etc.

This looks like a tail strike from another tang.

Hi Jay,

Thanks so much for your quick response!

I noticed this wound yesterday evening—it appeared suddenly. I’m not sure whether it was caused by the heater or if he got into a fight. He’s never been friendly with my Sailfin Tang; he’s significantly larger than the other seven fishes in my tank and tends to bully them. However, this is the first time he’s gotten a wound in nearly a year since I added him.


Last night, after I noticed the wound, I continued feeding him. He ate a lot and was very active chasing food, but the injury seems to be bothering him, as he’s swimming off-balance. I also noticed that my scopas tang (way smaller than my blue tang) has been lingering close to him—sometimes inspecting the wound. I’m unsure whether this is an aggressive behavior or if the scopas tang is genuinely concerned.

Could you please advise how to help him heal? Thank you!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,

Thanks so much for your quick response!

I noticed this wound yesterday evening—it appeared suddenly. I’m not sure whether it was caused by the heater or if he got into a fight. He’s never been friendly with my Sailfin Tang; he’s significantly larger than the other seven fishes in my tank and tends to bully them. However, this is the first time he’s gotten a wound in nearly a year since I added him.


Last night, after I noticed the wound, I continued feeding him. He ate a lot and was very active chasing food, but the injury seems to be bothering him, as he’s swimming off-balance. I also noticed that my scopas tang (way smaller than my blue tang) has been lingering close to him—sometimes inspecting the wound. I’m unsure whether this is an aggressive behavior or if the scopas tang is genuinely concerned.

Could you please advise how to help him heal? Thank you!

The scopas is not concerned about the blue tang, fish lack that sort of empathy. It could very well be the culprit in this injury. Any Zebrasoma tang would be my first suspicion.

It looks like the injury is behind the abdomen of the fish, so hopefully no vital organs were involved.

The question here is: do you set up a treatment tank and dose with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic (like neomycin or kanamycin) or do you just wait to see if it heals on its own? No easy to really tell you which way would be best.