Brightwell’s Phosphat-E

[mrpontiac80]

I am thinking of trying brightwell aquatics phosphate -e.
If I try phosphate-e do I dose it in the display , any rear chamber, or in the chamber with my skimmer? I am interested in this product because I feel like it could be better dosed for stability rather than a fresh batch of gfo.

My tank is 2 years old mixed reef in an waterbox 65 gallon all in one and I have always had higher nitrates and phosphates.
My average nitrates run 20-29 ppm between water changes averaging 20% every 9-12 days
My average phosphate is .25 ppm but if I do nothing to combat them, they rise higher than that quickly. This started about 3-4 months ago with no changes in my tank. I feel that my substrate may have saturated and now all of the phosphate that comes into the tank is showing on my tests.
I run a ice cap k-50 skimmer that seems to work well on this tank.

I first tried chemipure in the bags under my filter cups. And saw very little changes.
I then purchased a brs reactor and started mixing carbon and gfo and got great results but big swings and caused more harm than good. I would be at .25 ppm phosphate and 24 hrs later be .09
My goal is to keep phosphate at about .1-.08 ppm
I know I can get my nitrates down with water changes just by doing them every 7 days vs 12 or so. My goal for nitrate is around 20 ppm

thoughts? Thanks everyone.

 

[Duffer]

i use it ,it's my number one product for phosphates reduction. I dose slowly and about half the recommended dose..i dose right into the skimmer body.

 

[mrpontiac80]

i use it ,it's my number one product for phosphates reduction. I dose slowly and about half the recommended dose..i dose right into the skimmer body.

So I just pull off my skimmer cup and dose inside where the foam action happens? Are the claims pretty accurate on how much is removed per ml dosed?

 

[bushdoc]

Word of caution-be careful and not only read the instructions, but research how people are dosing it. I fried some corals years ago by using it and decreasing phosphates to zero within a day. Phosphate-E is Lanthanum Chloride, which binds phosphates. It is well established method, but needs understanding how it works. People drip slowly diluted solution to filter sock, so precipitate stays there and change doesn't happen too suddenly

 

[Duffer]

So I just pull off my skimmer cup and dose inside where the foam action happens? Are the claims pretty accurate on how much is removed per ml dosed?

yes...

i use the following as a guide line on dosing..

http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

 

[mrpontiac80]

Word of caution-be careful and not only read the instructions, but research how people are dosing it. I fried some corals years ago by using it and decreasing phosphates to zero within a day. Phosphate-E is Lanthanum Chloride, which binds phosphates. It is well established method, but needs understanding how it works. People drip slowly diluted solution to filter sock, so precipitate stays there and change doesn't happen too suddenly

I’m definitely trying to research. I actually bought Red Sea nopox a few months ago and never used it because I am always hesitant to start something new, and I decided it might not be the tool I wanted it to be. I’ve had the phosphate-e now for a month also, but again have yet to use it.

 

[mrpontiac80]

yes...

i use the following as a guide line on dosing..

http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

Sorry for the dumb question but the calculator seems to have already suggested a 50% dose of the recommended dose… correct? And do you personally continue with the 50% dose or after see the results have you increased to the recommended dose?

 

[Duffer]

Sorry for the dumb question but the calculator seems to have already suggested a 50% dose of the recommended dose… correct? And do you personally continue with the 50% dose or after see the results have you increased to the recommended dose?

i usually stay around the 50% dose, unless i see a major climb in phosphates.The one thing you want to make sure with any form of LC is go slow, cause as pointed out it can bottom out your phosphates quickly..

 

[mrpontiac80]

i usually stay around the 50% dose, unless i see a major climb in phosphates.The one thing you want to make sure with any form of LC is go slow, cause as pointed out it can bottom out your phosphates quickly..

Last question for you I promise, You are dosing daily correct?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Duffer]

Last question for you I promise, You are dosing daily correct?
Thanks for your help.

I do not…I dose one day and wait till the next day and do a test…if they came down to the level I like I leave alone, if not ill dose again…now i test every four days and will only dose when needed..

phosphates bind to rock and sand,and until they fully leech out it’s a dosing game

 

[mrpontiac80]

Ok I am ready to dose phosphate E for the first time.
Nitrates are 22 ppm
Phosphate is .25 ppm
My eventual target phos. Is .08-.1
I am only going to do a half dose
But what should my first target be??? Is .25 down to .1 too much in one whack? Should I calculate the dose for a target of .2?
I just don’t want to drop too fast.

 

[bushdoc]

My arbitrary rule of thumb would be to decrease phosphates by 20% daily, but if they were at higher level for weeks, I would wait few days before making further drops and meanwhile observing your tank for side effects.
I derived this rule from my work, when sometimes I have to decrease dose of certain medications/substances some people were abusing for long time. I understand that biochemical processes in humans may work differently that homeostasis in a reef tank, but it would be good point to start.

 

[mrpontiac80]

My arbitrary rule of thumb would be to decrease phosphates by 20% daily, but if they were at higher level for weeks, I would wait few days before making further drops and meanwhile observing your tank for side effects.
I derived this rule from my work, when sometimes I have to decrease dose of certain medications/substances some people were abusing for long time. I understand that biochemical processes in humans may work differently that homeostasis in a reef tank, but it would be good point to start.

Well that works out almost exactly to what I just did. I decided to try to drop it 20%. .25 ppm tonight. So ideally I should see results of .2
Not sure how fast it works though. I’ll test tomorrow and see if it reaches or exceeded that target

 

[Steve2020]

Ok I am ready to dose phosphate E for the first time.
Nitrates are 22 ppm
Phosphate is .25 ppm
My eventual target phos. Is .08-.1
I am only going to do a half dose
But what should my first target be??? Is .25 down to .1 too much in one whack? Should I calculate the dose for a target of .2?
I just don’t want to drop too fast.

Do you have any Tangs? There are many threads where people have dosed Lanthanum and allowed precipitate to enter the display tank. Lanthanum can clog their gills and suffocate them. Not sure why they just mention Tangs though. I also use phosphate-E and have tangs and to be on the safe side I dose via a 12hr drip into a 1 micron sock. I mix my phosphate -E with 1200ml of RODI. My total water volume is 255gal and when I first started dosing I would mix 6ml of phosphate-E with 1200ml RODI to drop My PO4 by 0.1ppm. My rock and sand became PO4 saturated when I was fighting a Dino outbreak which has been eradicated now for a few months. My PO4 was stable at .25ppm when I first started doing the drip and is now stable at .13ppm so now I dose only 3ml of phosphate-E with 1200ml of RODI every 3-4 days. I will adjust the amount of phosphate-E based upon the PO4 levels. I test every 3-4 days. If you are using a Hanna phosphate checker you want to test a day or two after dosing because the checker can give a false reading if there is any Lanthanum in the water from what I have read.
I use a small pump in my skimmer section at 250gpm and drip into the 7" 1 micron sock. I do it this way instead of putting the sock in the in the sock section because a 1 micron sock would clog many times in a 12hr period with tank crud.

 

[mrpontiac80]

Do you have any Tangs? There are many threads where people have dosed Lanthanum and allowed precipitate to enter the display tank. Lanthanum can clog their gills and suffocate them. Not sure why they just mention Tangs though. I also use phosphate-E and have tangs and to be on the safe side I dose via a 12hr drip into a 1 micron sock. I mix my phosphate -E with 1200ml of RODI. My total water volume is 255gal and when I first started dosing I would mix 6ml of phosphate-E with 1200ml RODI to drop My PO4 by 0.1ppm. My rock and sand became PO4 saturated when I was fighting a Dino outbreak which has been eradicated now for a few months. My PO4 was stable at .25ppm when I first started doing the drip and is now stable at .13ppm so now I dose only 3ml of phosphate-E with 1200ml of RODI every 3-4 days. I will adjust the amount of phosphate-E based upon the PO4 levels. I test every 3-4 days. If you are using a Hanna phosphate checker you want to test a day or two after dosing because the checker can give a false reading if there is any Lanthanum in the water from what I have read.

I do have a purple tang and a two spot bristle tooth. I dosed .6 ml directly into the skimmer neck. Hopefully they will be ok. I love those fish.

 

[Duffer]

Have four tangs in my tanks for yrs and also been dosing lc for yrs and not one I’ll effect on them

 

[elmothered]

@mrpontiac80 do you have any results to share. Now that a few weeks have passed? Any effect on your fish? Desired outcome with the PO4?

 

[mrpontiac80]

@mrpontiac80 do you have any results to share. Now that a few weeks have passed? Any effect on your fish? Desired outcome with the PO4?

So yes, I started dosing phosphate-e on December 22. I started off with 50% of the recommended dose. .06 ml in my case for a few days and it dropped my phosphates almost every time. Some days it stays the same.
I am now at 1.4 ml per day and still seeing the same thing… it will drop slightly but the next day or two will stay the same.
I can only assume that the rocks and sand are leaching out phosphate and eventually I will be able to just maintain the level I want. Since starting this I have dropped from .29 down to .21 as of this evening.
I am dosing directly into the skimmer neck and have not seen a single problem with fish or anything else. My corals are starting to look a little better overall
The .32 was an error as I was sidetracked and tested after feeding

 

[mrpontiac80]

Ok. So new questions. As stated in my previous post above, I started dosing daily at .06 ml and saw a decrease in phosphate. Once it seemed to level out.. I increased the dose a ml or 2. ( I’m testing daily With Hanna).
so 2-3 days at .06 ml then .08 and so on. Now for 3 days I’ve dosed 1.5 ml daily and I’ve been sitting at .22 ppm phosphate.

The recommended dose for my estimated volume of water was originally 1.4 ml. To go from .29 down to .15 ppm

Do I continue to dose the recommended amount daily until I reach my goal or what? I’m hesitant to keep increasing the dose over brightwell’s recommended amount.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It can be very hard to reduce phosphate because a lot may be bound to rock and sand. t may take a lot more for a lot longer than Brightwell understands.