Brown/Red Algae in sand

[Subsea]

@Subsea has it correct, the cyano is minimal and beneficial when not in plague proportions, which you do not have.
I’d keep siphoning and stirring that sand. It will go away on its own.

@Rocks reef
Curious as to your thoughts on why Cyanobacteria is beneficial in modest quantities.

 

[jimmypencil]

From a first glance I would say something like Coolia sp., but there are thousands of species that sometimes can very much look alike.

That sucks, definitely some kind of Dino’s though?

 

[EnterName]

That sucks, definitely some kind of Dino’s though?

I'm reasonably sure those are Dinoflagellates, yes.

 

[jimmypencil]

I'm reasonably sure those are Dinoflagellates, yes.

I guess they never went away, lol! I’ve been dealing with them since September. Looks like I had osteoporosis and now I have a different strain? I’m guessing it’s not uncommon to have multiple strains?

 

[EnterName]

I'm reasonably sure those are Dinoflagellates, yes.

I guess they never went away, lol! I’ve been dealing with them since September. Looks like I had osteoporosis and now I have a different strain? I’m guessing it’s not uncommon to have multiple strains?

The images I posted earlier were all taken in a very short time interval from samples of my current tank.

You usually have one dominant species at a time but can sometimes manage to find a few individual cells of other dinoflagellates. I'm struggling to find coolia and large cell Amphidinium though to "complete" my collection of the most common ones

In my experience the dominant species changes with environmental factors such as C:N:P ratio, lights, substrate/rock, filtration methods, macro algae, etc.

 

[Subsea]

I guess they never went away, lol! I’ve been dealing with them since September. Looks like I had osteoporosis and now I have a different strain? I’m guessing it’s not uncommon to have multiple strains?

70yrs ago, as a child, while on fishing trips to offshore oil production platforms, I witnessed Bioluminescence on surface waters in the Gulf of Mexico and became enthralled by the marine environment.

Dinoflagellets when excited, produce bioluminescence.

Dinoflagellets fix nitrogen from the atmosphere into ammonia.

Dinoflagellets are food for copepods, mussels, clams & oysters.

Jimmy,
Check out this predator/prey sceanario between different Dinoflagellets

“Dinoflagellates Eating Dinoflagellates
Interestingly, the predator-prey relationship isn't limited to different species. Some dinoflagellates are predatory and will actually hunt other dinoflagellates. These carnivorous dinoflagellates use feeding veils or feeding tubes to hunt their cousins for food and energy. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
For further exploration, you can read more about the complex interactions between these protists in this PubMed Central study or review the fluid dynamics of ASLO Journals regarding how these microscopic hunters move and feed.“

 

[jimmypencil]

70yrs ago, as a child, while on fishing trips to offshore oil production platforms, I witnessed Bioluminescence on surface waters in the Gulf of Mexico and became enthralled by the marine environment.

Dinoflagellets when excited, produce bioluminescence.

Dinoflagellets fix nitrogen from the atmosphere into ammonia.

Dinoflagellets are food for copepods, mussels, clams & oysters.

Jimmy,
Check out this predator/prey sceanario between different Dinoflagellets

“Dinoflagellates Eating Dinoflagellates
Interestingly, the predator-prey relationship isn't limited to different species. Some dinoflagellates are predatory and will actually hunt other dinoflagellates. These carnivorous dinoflagellates use feeding veils or feeding tubes to hunt their cousins for food and energy. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
For further exploration, you can read more about the complex interactions between these protists in this PubMed Central study or review the fluid dynamics of ASLO Journals regarding how these microscopic hunters move and feed.“

Very cool, thanks for all the valuable info in this thread!

 

[jimmypencil]

The image you shared is Ostreopsis. You can see how many of those cells have a "pointy" end. They move like they are fixing some point in the distance and then circle around it.

Prorocentrum has often a flat or concave end while remaining quite symmetrical and the "central pyrenoid" (round thing in the center).

​

Amphidinium (small and large cell) most often have a "beak" or "nose" making them asymmetrical:

When you said you took these photos from the same system, would you say that system is in an active Dino outbreak? Or are you saying that if you look hard enough in ANY system you will likely find Dino’s, possibly even multiple kinds?

 

[EnterName]

The image you shared is Ostreopsis. You can see how many of those cells have a "pointy" end. They move like they are fixing some point in the distance and then circle around it.

Prorocentrum has often a flat or concave end while remaining quite symmetrical and the "central pyrenoid" (round thing in the center).

​

Amphidinium (small and large cell) most often have a "beak" or "nose" making them asymmetrical:

When you said you took these photos from the same system, would you say that system is in an active Dino outbreak? Or are you saying that if you look hard enough in ANY system you will likely find Dino’s, possibly even multiple kinds?

Dinoflagellates are very low in the food chain and pretty much omnipresent. However, they can be really scarce in a reef tank and you might only find them when you know where to look.

In my tank I had the great luck of being able to cause a controlled and very limited outbreak by letting nutrients drop. Once I started dosing ammonia and phosphate they reliably disappeared again. I used this to my advantage to take the shared images as these "outbreaks" never got worse than a slight discoloration of the substrate.

In the first years of the system I mainly had Prorocentrum dinos, after a few years this shifted to Ostreopsis for a reason I was not able to determine. I was also able to find Amphidinium cells in samples of damaged coral tissue (usually through corals stinging each other or if one of my hermits decided to throw a delicate coral down the rockscape again).

 

[jimmypencil]

Dinoflagellates are very low in the food chain and pretty much omnipresent. However, they can be really scarce in a reef tank and you might only find them when you know where to look.

In my tank I had the great luck of being able to cause a controlled and very limited outbreak by letting nutrients drop. Once I started dosing ammonia and phosphate they reliably disappeared again. I used this to my advantage to take the shared images as these "outbreaks" never got worse than a slight discoloration of the substrate.

In the first years of the system I mainly had Prorocentrum dinos, after a few years this shifted to Ostreopsis for a reason I was not able to determine. I was also able to find Amphidinium cells in samples of damaged coral tissue (usually through corals stinging each other or if one of my hermits decided to throw a delicate coral down the rockscape again).

Thank you. I’m dealing with bubbles on my rocks that are driving me insane and it’s very difficult to get a sample and determine if they are Dino’s. They dissapear at night completely but if I blow them with turkey baster only the bubbles come off no brown strands or anything. I have been able to find 1 cell of prorocentrum and maybe a couple small cell amphi but I’m not sure. Idk if the bubbles are from some other photosynthetic algae that’s coating the rocks. My rocks have a very short red/maroon hair algae coating that the bubbles attach too. Hard to get off unless I brush.

Given that it’s extremely difficult to find Dino cells when I try to take samples from these areas that have bubbles, I’m not sure that it’s a Dino outbreak causing the bubbles.

 

[EnterName]

Dinoflagellates are very low in the food chain and pretty much omnipresent. However, they can be really scarce in a reef tank and you might only find them when you know where to look.

In my tank I had the great luck of being able to cause a controlled and very limited outbreak by letting nutrients drop. Once I started dosing ammonia and phosphate they reliably disappeared again. I used this to my advantage to take the shared images as these "outbreaks" never got worse than a slight discoloration of the substrate.

In the first years of the system I mainly had Prorocentrum dinos, after a few years this shifted to Ostreopsis for a reason I was not able to determine. I was also able to find Amphidinium cells in samples of damaged coral tissue (usually through corals stinging each other or if one of my hermits decided to throw a delicate coral down the rockscape again).

Thank you. I’m dealing with bubbles on my rocks that are driving me insane and it’s very difficult to get a sample and determine if they are Dino’s. They dissapear at night completely but if I blow them with turkey baster only the bubbles come off no brown strands or anything. I have been able to find 1 cell of prorocentrum and maybe a couple small cell amphi but I’m not sure. Idk if the bubbles are from some other photosynthetic algae that’s coating the rocks. My rocks have a very short red/maroon hair algae coating that the bubbles attach too. Hard to get off unless I brush.

Given that it’s extremely difficult to find Dino cells when I try to take samples from these areas that have bubbles, I’m not sure that it’s a Dino outbreak causing the bubbles.

That looks like a Diatom issue to me. I assume silicate levels are increased and you simply need to properly deionize the top off water (and water used for water changes). The issue will resolve itself over a few weeks.

If you have been silicate dosing to deal with dinoflagellates you can probably stop now.

 

[jimmypencil]

That looks like a Diatom issue to me. I assume silicate levels are increased and you simply need to properly deionize the top off water (and water used for water changes). The issue will resolve itself over a few weeks.

If you have been silicate dosing to deal with dinoflagellates you can probably stop now.

I have stopped dosing silicates for a couple weeks now. I tested silicates when I stopped and they were only .08 via Hanna checker. Maybe they are low because diatoms are using them? I will test again today. Would it be possible to still have diatoms like in the photos with low silicates?

My RODI water is 0tds and per oceomo ICP there was nothing in it.

 

[EnterName]

That looks like a Diatom issue to me. I assume silicate levels are increased and you simply need to properly deionize the top off water (and water used for water changes). The issue will resolve itself over a few weeks.

If you have been silicate dosing to deal with dinoflagellates you can probably stop now.

I have stopped dosing silicates for a couple weeks now. I tested silicates when I stopped and they were only .08 via Hanna checker. Maybe they are low because diatoms are using them? I will test again today. Would it be possible to still have diatoms like in the photos with low silicates?

My RODI water is 0tds and per oceomo ICP there was nothing in it.

Good question... Diatoms are always present and often make up a significant bit of the stuff you scrape off your glass every day. They will always have some silicate available to build their frustules and don't require much nutrients (obviously depending on species). I assume it takes a while until your rocks grow competing organisms or some biofilm to reduce their growth.

Diatoms are usually just a cosmetic issue so at least you don't have to worry about toxins. I would add a silicate adsorber just to make sure. Food can sometimes introduce silicates which might prolong the time it takes to get rid of the diatoms. Just know that silicate adsorbers will also adsorb phosphate so keep an eye on the phosphate levels.