Bulk soda ash discontinued?

[AtlCPA]

I've learned a lot from your videos and for me that's worth paying a little bit extra if necessary.

In the business I'm in, we are expensive as hell, but our customers value the complete package we bring and gladly pay us more than the other firm down the street. Starbucks has done this, big green egg has done this. If you try to win business based on price, you will lose the business later based on price.

Keep doing a great job for the hobby as a whole Ryan and charge what you think your product deserves.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

So far from what I have read the only differences I have seen you guys mention is that it’s a new packaging and that it mixes clearer.

So the question is what makes it better for our reefs ? As you said you guys made the change cause it’s better for our tanks so how is it better ?

 

[chicago]

mixes better usually indicates a better product.. just my 2cents.. ordering shortly

 

[redfishbluefish]

Bottom line....there is no need for Pharmaceutical grade chemicals in our tanks!

Pharmaceutical grade means that these chemicals can be used in products (drugs) that are then injected into humans (and animals). Part of this high level of purity assures the lack of pyrogens...these are things that would cause a temperature increase in a person if injected into the blood stream. Last I checked, we are not injecting our fish, crabs, shrimp, corals, etc., with these chemicals. Pyrogens floating about the water have no effect, just like all the "pyrogens" that we come in contact and maybe consume have no impact on our health. So the reason for pharmaceutical grade is to assure these compounds can be injected with safety of the individual.

I've been using food grade chemicals for ten years, and my tank is happy. I see no reason whatsoever to use any "higher" grade of chemicals for my tank. I will continue to use food grade.....and see no ill effects....not a one! Now, if the issue is shipping costs, address that issue, but don't say that this higher grade of chemicals is of greater benefit to our tanks. That's just nonsense.

I really like Bulk Reef Supply....it's my go-to place.... and will continue to use you guys for all other dry goods. However, I will be purchasing my (food grade) bulk chemicals elsewhere.

 

[amnesiac]

Bottom line....there is no need for Pharmaceutical grade chemicals in our tanks!
I've been using food grade chemicals for ten years, and my tank is happy. I see no reason whatsoever to use any "higher" grade of chemicals for my tank. I will continue to use food grade.....and see no ill effects....not a one! Now, if the issue is shipping costs, address that issue, but don't say that this higher grade of chemicals is of greater benefit to our tanks. That's just nonsense.

I really like Bulk Reef Supply....it's my go-to place.... and will continue to use you guys for all other dry goods. However, I will be purchasing my (food grade) bulk chemicals elsewhere.

+++++1

 

[graffitireef]

Gas used to cost $0.50 a gallon and a cup of coffee was ten cents. Business changes.

 

[chicago]

i would love some kalkwasser that had a nice cleaner mix.. i will be trying the new and improved.. BRS is always a good choice for me.. besides.. laboratory sized warehouse need funding...!!!

 

[bubbaque]

Pharmaceutical grade set a side. Why are some people having a hard time with the price increase? It’s been a long time since the price has changed. Do people expect to never see an increase in price on a product through the years? Ryan said cost has been increasing for them though the years but they have been just eating the cost.

Even if the product was the exact same, I’d expect a price increase after a while. It being a more pure product I consider a bonus.

Yes I know you can buy it else where for cheaper but considering the effort and money BRS spends to further the hobby with their videos, I will continue to pay more just to support this company.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

For me the problem was more than just price but I have moved on from BRS 2 part since the change.

 

[Velcro]

So the old BRS was food grade calcium and USP grade magnesium. I assume that the old BRS sodium bicarbonate was the same (food/USP grade)? What percentage of clarity are we looking at with those additives vs. the current offering of the pharma grade? The fact that the magnesium was already USP grade would put it in the lines of pharma grade correct? Googling USP brings up a chemical grade of sufficient purity to meet or exceed requirements of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP); acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use; may be used for most laboratory purposes.

As tiering goes, it goes from ACS --> reagent (generally equal to ACS) --> USP --> USP-NF --> lab (not pure enough for food, drug, or medicinal use)
There's a couple of other grades below that, but I don't think that's relevant to the discussion since we're going below food grade.

Looking up sodium bicarbonate at their different purity levels, it's:
ACS/reagent: 99.7 - 100.3% (mean 100%)
USP/FCC: 99 - 100.5% (mean 99.75%)

So, we're looking at an average incremental value of 0.25% difference?



I don't think we're looking at comparing it to industrial chemicals, but rather the slight difference between the old grading of the BRS additives vs. the current line of pharma grade additives.

Meeting a USP monographs parameters is only part of the challenge of chemical quality. I work in this sector. There are many other considerations that can make the same USP chemicals from two different suppliers better or worse. First is simply being an FDA registered facility. It isn't hard for a shady chemical manufacturer to put whatever into a 55b gallon drum and put together some BS certificate of analysis to say that it actually meets the monographs requirements. FDA registration means that the manufacturer is actually inspected by the FDA for having legit policies and procedures.

Secondly, some manufactures have even tighter tolerances than the USP monographs specs. This means better solubility or lower allowance of impurities, etc.

 

[Velcro]

Bottom line....there is no need for Pharmaceutical grade chemicals in our tanks!

Pharmaceutical grade means that these chemicals can be used in products (drugs) that are then injected into humans (and animals). Part of this high level of purity assures the lack of pyrogens...these are things that would cause a temperature increase in a person if injected into the blood stream. Last I checked, we are not injecting our fish, crabs, shrimp, corals, etc., with these chemicals. Pyrogens floating about the water have no effect, just like all the "pyrogens" that we come in contact and maybe consume have no impact on our health. So the reason for pharmaceutical grade is to assure these compounds can be injected with safety of the individual.

I've been using food grade chemicals for ten years, and my tank is happy. I see no reason whatsoever to use any "higher" grade of chemicals for my tank. I will continue to use food grade.....and see no ill effects....not a one! Now, if the issue is shipping costs, address that issue, but don't say that this higher grade of chemicals is of greater benefit to our tanks. That's just nonsense.

I really like Bulk Reef Supply....it's my go-to place.... and will continue to use you guys for all other dry goods. However, I will be purchasing my (food grade) bulk chemicals elsewhere.

Pharmaceutical grade doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pyrogen/endotoxin/microbial burden. In fact, it's rare for a USP monograph for bulk chemicals to list this as a specification.

 

[Ibn]

Thanks for those clarifications and info. It's much appreciated.

So if the monographs parameter chemicals are acquired through a FDA registered facility/source, then chances are that the chemicals are within the control for what they're listed at? Where can a hobbyist find that information? What makes the pharma grade stuff better than USP (from a FDA approved source)? You mentioned solubility and lower allowance for impurities, but isn't the latter part of the grading aspects?

 

[Velcro]

Thanks for those clarifications and info. It's much appreciated.

So if the monographs parameter chemicals are acquired through a FDA registered facility/source, then chances are that the chemicals are within the control for what they're listed at? Where can a hobbyist find that information? What makes the pharma grade stuff better than USP (from a FDA approved source)? You mentioned solubility and lower allowance for impurities, but isn't the latter part of the grading aspects?

"Pharmaceutical grade" is a confusing term. It's kind of an umbrella term that means any chemical suitable for use in medicine. USP, NF, FCC, JP, EP, etc are all types of chemical monographs that can fall under the category of "pharmaceutical grade." USP is USUALLY the best chemical from a monograph standpoint but there are exceptions. The FDA registration of the manufacturer is just telling you that you are getting what they say you are getting and that it's most likely a higher caliber facility than anyone that ISN'T FDA registered. And yes, both solubility and impurities are just examples of what parameters must be met by a monographed chemical, but some manufacturers strive to keep those things even more strict than the monograph's requirements.

I can tell you from experience that you get what you pay for with chemicals. While I might get some calcium hydroxide USP from vendor A and some calcium hydroxide USP from vendor B, and both of these chemicals meet the monograph's requirements, this doesn't tell the whole story. The one that is from a higher quality manufacturer (which generally means more expensive) often goes into solution to a higher concentration than the "cheaper" chemical.

 

[chicago]

ok .. i am ordering the new stuff today.. and will see how it compares and post back.

 

[DerekD]

In regard to the new packaging...I ordered a 7lb pack of Soda Ash. The box arrived with the new packaging having a crack in the seam and Soda Ask all over the interior of the box and coming out of the tape seams. Not sure if its a weakness in the new packaging or a result of sub-par packing. There were air packs in the box, but only on top, leaving a lot of room for movement.

This is an isolated experience of only one shipment, but I feel the older style rigid containers held up better to shipping.

I emailed BRS with some photos. Waiting to hear back.

 

[Zack@BRS]

Sorry to hear about that @DerekD . I'm sure customer service will be able to resolve that for you right away. If you want to pm me your order info, I can get that to them so that it gets looked at right away.

While it's definitely frustrating to see an item arrive damaged, this is unfortunately not isolated to the new packaging. One of the reasons for the change was that the rigid plastic containers had a habit of cracking in shipment due to rough handling. Sometimes there's only so much you can do to prevent breakage, and we've all seen how some of those parcels get handled. Regardless, we do appreciate you taking the time to reach out to us and share.

 

[ReefSlice]

I ordered a new bag and mine came popped too, not terrible but powder all over the box and contents. As long as it doesn't harden up on me I don't mind much, but hopefully these bags hold up long-term.

 

[DerekD]

Sorry to hear about that @DerekD . I'm sure customer service will be able to resolve that for you right away. If you want to pm me your order info, I can get that to them so that it gets looked at right away.

While it's definitely frustrating to see an item arrive damaged, this is unfortunately not isolated to the new packaging. One of the reasons for the change was that the rigid plastic containers had a habit of cracking in shipment due to rough handling. Sometimes there's only so much you can do to prevent breakage, and we've all seen how some of those parcels get handled. Regardless, we do appreciate you taking the time to reach out to us and share.

Thanks for reaching out @Zack@BRS.
I did some work once upon a time with one of the big shipping carrier. People wouldn't believe the rough treatment some packages see internally at the hubs, so I understand your point totally.

Just to be totally clear, I wasn't trying to imply at all that I wasn't getting good customer service. I only sent the email yesterday, and don't expect an instant response. I know I could have picked up the phone if I needed a faster resolution. I've always been happy with BRS in the past, and you guys are my go-to for all my reefing needs. Thanks for all you do for the community.

 

[Clownman727]

I would just like to say thank you to BRS. When I first started reef keeping a few years back I knew absolutely nothing about maintaining the water chemistry in my tank. But because of Ryan’s videos I was able to grasp the idea of dosing and how to succeed in reef keeping. Even with the forums and people’s advice, I needed to see it to understand and the videos did that. Because of this I am loyal to BRS and appreciate them finding a more pure chemical for the health of my underwear friends. Also, I just received the new soda ash and it’s really clean compared to the old that would leave a brown sludge in the bottom of the jug. Well worth the extra few dollars IMO. Keep up the good work BRS!! I think almost every reefer out there owes you guys a thank you.

 

[this is me]

My tank and I are okay with the "average" soda ash that you had sold in the past in 5 gallons bucket. Can I get the same product?