Bully royal gramma??

mkunk1

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Good evening!

Tank background: set up early January, 40 breeder 30 g sump, temp 77.9-79.1, ammonia & nitrite 0, nitrate ~5.

My first two fish were a firefish and the royal gramma in question. After adding them, I noticed he would nip at any snail/hermit/potential enemy that came anywhere near or even looked in the general direction of his cave. I figured okay, he's just a little protective.:rolleyes: About 2.5 weeks after adding those two, I added a bangaii cardinal and a yellow watchman goby. A week or so later I began to notice the firefish tail fin was getting torn up. I still have never seen the RG charge or nip at any other fish, so I was a little confused. Several days later (about a week ago) the firefish wound up dead.

After the firefish died, the YWG left his hole (which shared a rock with the RG, if that matters) and began acting funny - staying at the complete opposite side of the tank, out in the open day/night and even swimming up at the top of the tank. Through all of this though he continued to eat and showed no sign obvious of illness. I did notice that when the RG swam towards the YWG he would leave the sandbed and swim up to the top. This continued for about a week.

Now, the YWG has found a new cave on the other side of the tank and acts completely normal as he did prior to the firefish death. Several days ago, I noticed the bangaii began acting different, staying stuck to the back glass, quickly darting to grab a bite to eat then bolting back to the glass. He usually would hang out in the front corner and would become a huge fearless pig whenever I fed.

Today, I replaced the firefish and all was well. This is the first time I have seen any direct aggression from the RG to another fish - he began to open his mouth wide and charge the new firefish - however, the firefish didn't back down, just kind of turned his side to him and opened up his fins. I didn't see the RG bite the firefish at all. Things seemed to die down and I went to watch a TV show and came back 45 minutes later to see that the new firefish tail was frayed.

The only thing I can think is the RG. Is he just waiting until I walk away to attack :confused: Unless there is some bacteria/illness that could be causing it??
 

eatbreakfast

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Usually the extent of gramma aggression is opening their mouth and making a charge, but without any actual contact or damage inflicted. That being said, there are always exceptions, and some can be a bit more aggressive. However, those that do have a more aggressive gramma do report seeng the aggressive behavior.

The symptoms you describe from the 'victim' fish could be a disease or parasite or possibly a crab that is being aggressive, especially based on the yellow watchman's behavior.
 

LbulletM

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Just to cover bases, any chance it's actually a dotty back? They're known to be aggressive.

th
 
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mkunk1

mkunk1

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Just to cover bases, any chance it's actually a dotty back? They're known to be aggressive.

th

Yes, same markings - it's a royal gramma haha

Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for to dictate whether it's a parasite/disease?

The only inverts in the tank are (small) blue/red hermits, 1 thin striped hermit, a cleaner shrimp and various snails.
 

LbulletM

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Yes, same markings - it's a royal gramma haha

Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for to dictate whether it's a parasite/disease?

The only inverts in the tank are (small) blue/red hermits, 1 thin striped hermit, a cleaner shrimp and various snails.

White stringy poop? Large white dots? Small white/gold dots? That covers the big ones for parasite/disease.
 

eatbreakfast

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Yes, same markings - it's a royal gramma haha

Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for to dictate whether it's a parasite/disease?

The only inverts in the tank are (small) blue/red hermits, 1 thin striped hermit, a cleaner shrimp and various snails.
Cloudy, eyes, torn fins, erratic behavior, scratching on rocks or sand.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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Yes. They are grumpy territorial fish.
I highly reccomend an acclimation box for new arrivals.
 
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mkunk1

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After looking at all the fish closely, I did not notice any signs of illness or anything. However, I was looking at the fuge before the light came on down with my phone flashlight and noticed what looked like smoke coming off the heater in the shadow against the wall. If that makes sense. There wasn't anything in the water that I could see looking at it - just what showed in the shadow. The best thing I can think to describe it is how the water looks when you're pouring water into the tank how the salinity changes or whatever.

Is that just the heat dissipating into the water from the heater or is that something to be concerned about? I have another heater in there as well but it's off so I couldn't check it. I unplugged it and removed the heater in question just to be safe.
 

4FordFamily

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Yes, same markings - it's a royal gramma haha

Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for to dictate whether it's a parasite/disease?

The only inverts in the tank are (small) blue/red hermits, 1 thin striped hermit, a cleaner shrimp and various snails.
Both of those fish aren't royal gramma though, just so the casual reader is clear. The top is, the bottom is not.
 
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mkunk1

mkunk1

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Sorry for the low-quality pictures, but let me know if you guys see anything that I don't.

Also, this afternoon when I fed the bangaii seemed to act more himself again - however still sticking closer to the back.
 

4FordFamily

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That is in fact a royal gramma :)

Those are great photos, I don't see anything to be conscerned about right now.

I will say though, that am aggressive gramma is not likely to become more timid or less aggressive over time. It's more likely that the issue worsens.
 

eatbreakfast

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Everybody looks fine, and nobody looks bullied either.

If there was bullying to be concerned about the firefish would be continually hiding.
 

Lmdw121

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That is in fact a royal gramma :)

Those are great photos, I don't see anything to be conscerned about right now.

I will say though, that am aggressive gramma is not likely to become more timid or less aggressive over time. It's more likely that the issue worsens.


My Royal Gramma is a very mean fish..she hates our psuedochromis and now the psuedo won't even come out. The gramma looks like she is yelling at him when he tries to go to the same cave. The gramma came first. I moved the rocks around today in hopes the gramma would find a new home, but that didn't work. The pseudo came out for a minute and looked like a chunk was missing from its back and that part is all white. I'm worried it will die but can't even get to it. I'm starting to dislike my gramma. She always looks ticked off and eyes down all the fish that come near her. Nobody bothers with her .
 

Lmdw121

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My Royal Gramma is a very mean fish..she hates our psuedochromis and now the psuedo won't even come out. The gramma looks like she is yelling at him when he tries to go to the same cave. The gramma came first. I moved the rocks around today in hopes the gramma would find a new home, but that didn't work. The pseudo came out for a minute and looked like a chunk was missing from its back and that part is all white. I'm worried it will die but can't even get to it. I'm starting to dislike my gramma. She always looks ****** off and eyes down all the fish that come near her. Nobody bothers with her .
Here is a pick of the victim ..

1AA4503A-51E8-4D91-B66F-D06CDEEC1B67.jpeg
 

4FordFamily

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My Royal Gramma is a very mean fish..she hates our psuedochromis and now the psuedo won't even come out. The gramma looks like she is yelling at him when he tries to go to the same cave. The gramma came first. I moved the rocks around today in hopes the gramma would find a new home, but that didn't work. The pseudo came out for a minute and looked like a chunk was missing from its back and that part is all white. I'm worried it will die but can't even get to it. I'm starting to dislike my gramma. She always looks ****** off and eyes down all the fish that come near her. Nobody bothers with her .
There too similar in shape and “lineage”. That problem isn’t likely to sort itself out. Photos of the damaged dottyback would be helpful, but I recommend one of them goes.

Edit: just saw photo.

Watch for infection. I can’t tell if there’s a piece of flesh missing but that could become a serious infection in short order..

Do you have a qt? You’ll need kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2.
 

Lmdw121

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There too similar in shape and “lineage”. That problem isn’t likely to sort itself out. Photos of the damaged dottyback would be helpful, but I recommend one of them goes.
Yeah I'm thinking so..thanks
 

Lmdw121

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There too similar in shape and “lineage”. That problem isn’t likely to sort itself out. Photos of the damaged dottyback would be helpful, but I recommend one of them goes.

Edit: just saw photo.

Watch for infection. I can’t tell if there’s a piece of flesh missing but that could become a serious infection in short order..

Do you have a qt? You’ll need kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2.
I'm sorry for not knowing as I am only 6 weeks into this hobby. What is qt? There is a piece of flesh missing. Is it possible it could heal?
 

4FordFamily

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