Ca and Alk in the same supplement? How does this work?

[Hans-Werner]

@recci: Pro-Coral Mineral is not exactly the same as K+ and A- Elements. Pro-Coral Mineral contains all 70 trace elements of the Tropic Marine sea salts in the same proportions as the sea salts. This means Pro-Coral Mineral contains more trace elements and in somewhat different proportions compared to K+ and A- Elements.

The application is similar as K+ and A- Elements combined but I yet have to try whether Pro-Coral Mineral can be mixed with Carbo-Calcium and calculate the proper amount. Some components of Pro-Coral Mineral may form insoluble precipitates with Carbo-Calcium. We recently have done and are still doing adjustings to increase the solubility and compatibility of some of our products. Pro-Coral Mineral is one of these products.

K+ and A- Elements contains the trace elements with known biological functions in the proportions as they are consumed by growth of corals and coralline algae.

@all: Yes, the difference between Carbo-Calcium and All-For-Reef is that All-For-Reef contains magnesium and the trace elements of the K+ and A- Elements.
The amount of calcium and trace elements in Bio-Magnesium is very small and does not influence the calculation substantially.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

@recci: Pro-Coral Mineral is not exactly the same as K+ and A- Elements. Pro-Coral Mineral contains all 70 trace elements of the Tropic Marine sea salts in the same proportions as the sea salts. This means Pro-Coral Mineral contains more trace elements and in somewhat different proportions compared to K+ and A- Elements.

The application is similar as K+ and A- Elements combined but I yet have to try whether Pro-Coral Mineral can be mixed with Carbo-Calcium and calculate the proper amount. Some components of Pro-Coral Mineral may form insoluble precipitates with Carbo-Calcium. We recently have done and are still doing adjustings to increase the solubility and compatibility of some of our products. Pro-Coral Mineral is one of these products.

K+ and A- Elements contains the trace elements with known biological functions in the proportions as they are consumed by growth of corals and coralline algae.

@all: Yes, the difference between Carbo-Calcium and All-For-Reef is that All-For-Reef contains magnesium and the trace elements of the K+ and A- Elements.
The amount of calcium and trace elements in Bio-Magnesium is very small and does not influence the calculation substantially.

Ok, thanks for detailed explanation. I have another question:

I have some old red sea magnesium liquid thats going out of date. Could I mix that in the carbocalcium without causing issues? I know it's not one of your products but just wondering if you know.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I am not sure but you can give it a try. Please take into consideration the magnesium concentration.

 

[Bpp124987]

@Hans-Werner I’m running into high calcium while just dosing all for reef. What should I dose to increase the alk without pushing up calcium? Soda ash?

 

[Hans-Werner]

You can use baking soda or soda ash to increase alkalinity. I would prefer baking soda.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok, thanks for detailed explanation. I have another question:

I have some old red sea magnesium liquid thats going out of date. Could I mix that in the carbocalcium without causing issues? I know it's not one of your products but just wondering if you know.

normal magnesium supplements do not go bad with age and should be able to be mixed with calcium formate formulations.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Hans-Werner I’m running into high calcium while just dosing all for reef. What should I dose to increase the alk without pushing up calcium? Soda ash?

sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate are the way to raise alk only. If you want a big pH boost as well you can use sodium hydroxide (add it slowly and more diluted than the others).

 

[Hans-Werner]

normal magnesium supplements do not go bad with age and should be able to be mixed with calcium formate

Addition of magnesium supplements to calcium formate may be limited by sulfate in the magnesium supplement. This may form calcium sulfate precipitates if it exceeds a low concentration. In this regard there is no difference between Bio-Magnesium and other magnesium supplements. This is why I recommend to add the magnesium supplement carefully and only to a small proportion.

 

[Bramzor]

@recci: Pro-Coral Mineral is not exactly the same as K+ and A- Elements. Pro-Coral Mineral contains all 70 trace elements of the Tropic Marine sea salts in the same proportions as the sea salts. This means Pro-Coral Mineral contains more trace elements and in somewhat different proportions compared to K+ and A- Elements.

The application is similar as K+ and A- Elements combined but I yet have to try whether Pro-Coral Mineral can be mixed with Carbo-Calcium and calculate the proper amount. Some components of Pro-Coral Mineral may form insoluble precipitates with Carbo-Calcium. We recently have done and are still doing adjustings to increase the solubility and compatibility of some of our products. Pro-Coral Mineral is one of these products.

K+ and A- Elements contains the trace elements with known biological functions in the proportions as they are consumed by growth of corals and coralline algae.

@all: Yes, the difference between Carbo-Calcium and All-For-Reef is that All-For-Reef contains magnesium and the trace elements of the K+ and A- Elements.
The amount of calcium and trace elements in Bio-Magnesium is very small and does not influence the calculation substantially.

Thought I was going crazy but found the video that said Pro-Coral Mineral was K+ and A- combined:

Would have liked an all powdered recipe for all for reef though.

 

[NeutronMan]

How quickly does All For Reef convert into alkalinity? If a dosing pump failed and doses a large amount, I wonder how bad the alk spike would be?

 

[jschultzbass]

How quickly does All For Reef convert into alkalinity? If a dosing pump failed and doses a large amount, I wonder how bad the alk spike would be?

That's my question as well. Mainly for testing purposes.

 

[Drneil]

Just want to confirm, has all for reef changed to include k+ elements?

I'm sure when I bought previously it stated k+ was separate. I have a bottle of k+ I'm manually dosing but threw the bottle of all for reef away when I put it in my dosing container.

Thinking of the carbocalcium with elements mixed as the next route.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How quickly does All For Reef convert into alkalinity? If a dosing pump failed and doses a large amount, I wonder how bad the alk spike would be?

I do not know, but I expect hours. Still too fast.

 

[NeutronMan]

I do not know, but I expect hours. Still too fast.

So it may not help in the case of an OD, but would seem to be a more gentle way of dosing alkalinity since it takes time to convert, no?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So it may not help in the case of an OD, but would seem to be a more gentle way of dosing alkalinity since it takes time to convert, no?

It will rise more slowly in a rapid overdose. I'm not sure if that is important not. It will also drop O2 in an overdose, which may be bad.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I'm having real trouble dissolving 6 level scoops of carbocalcium in 1 litre of RO water. I end up with around 1300ml to get it all dissolved. Is this normal or should I heat the water up or something? It says 6 scoops to 1 litre on the tub.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Can I confirm that the trace elements A and k contain iodine and strontium?

 

[bluprntguy]

Can I confirm that the trace elements A and k contain iodine and strontium?

Pro-Coral A- Trace 1 Contains:

• Bromine
• Fluorine
• Iodine
• Lithium
• Molybdenum
• Selenium
• Vanadium

Pro-Coral K+ Trace 2 Contains:

• Barium
• Boron
• Chrome
• Cobalt
• Iron
• Copper
• Manganese
• Nickel
• Strontium
• Zinc

 

[bluprntguy]

I'm having real trouble dissolving 6 level scoops of carbocalcium in 1 litre of RO water. I end up with around 1300ml to get it all dissolved. Is this normal or should I heat the water up or something? It says 6 scoops to 1 litre on the tub.

Directions on BRS’ website note “ Room temp water is ok, but warm water will help dissolve the powder more quickly”

I purchase the premixed “all for reef” for my nano, but I have noticed occasionally there is a small amount of particulate in the bottom of the bottle. I think Tropic Marin has pegged the amount to be right at the saturation level. I’ve never noticed any issues when there is a little bit of particulate.

 

[GMay]

You can take 140 g of Carbocalcium Powder fill it up with R/O water to 800 ml and dissolve as much as can be dissolved. Then add 100 ml of each, A- and K+ Elements, and dissolve the remaining Carbocalcium Powder completely. At last add 12 g of Bio-Magnesium and dissolve it. This solution comes closest to our All-For-Reef and will add all major, minor and trace elements necessary for good coral growth.
Of course you can also premix 140 g of Carbocalcium Powder and 12 g of Bio-Magnesium.
The 12 g is an empiric quantity. We added more Bio-Magnesium at first and noticed increasing magnesium concentrations in the tanks. So we reduced the magnesium concentration. However magnesium consumption may vary for example with coralline algal growth.

I have been using this formulation on a 60 gallon tank for the past 6 months. The tank is mostly LPS corals so the consumption is not that had to keep up with. In that 6 months I have had to correct for calcium once to bring it from 400 ppm to 420 ppm. My system was already running as a ULNS so I have had to feed more heavily, but otherwise I have been happy with the switch from other calcium and alkalinity methods.