Calling On Tropic Marine For Help!!!

((FORDTECH))

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Funny in both of these tmp threads Lou and Hans both stopped responding….. I sure hope they are up to something. Instead of just hanging there heads…but I guess not much more they can say that they haven’t already…
 
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PeterC99

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5 days ago I mixed a sample batch of my TM Pro produced in Turkey. No smell and no residue. Pics below.

6648F92C-97BF-413A-AD56-2C42C8DD2FEB.jpeg
D5982415-C6F9-424E-B0B7-F355C5C2C52B.jpeg
 

((FORDTECH))

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5 days ago I mixed a sample batch of my TM Pro produced in Turkey. No smell and no residue. Pics below.

6648F92C-97BF-413A-AD56-2C42C8DD2FEB.jpeg
D5982415-C6F9-424E-B0B7-F355C5C2C52B.jpeg
The residue does not happen right away obviously it happens over days if not a couple weeks. And if your salt does not smell maybe it’s not part of the affected batches
 

((FORDTECH))

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As you can see my batch numbers are wayyyyyyyyyyy below any of yours and I’m having this same issue. I got my salt maybe a year ago. 20 -220 gallon bags
 

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Lou Ekus

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Funny in both of these tmp threads Lou and Hans both stopped responding….. I sure hope they are up to something. Instead of just hanging there heads…but I guess not much more they can say that they haven’t already…
We have not stopped responding. We are asking that anyone with issues please fill out our short questionnaire: Tropic Marin Salt Questionnaire

Past that, I can just say that we are working none stop to see if we can identify ANY cause for what people are seeing. We have no new information yet. We will certainly be posting if/when we find anything.

I truly wish there was more I had to say at the moment. But for now, just know we are working diligently on this subject! I'll be back with more information when we have it.
 

((FORDTECH))

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We have not stopped responding. We are asking that anyone with issues please fill out our short questionnaire: Tropic Marin Salt Questionnaire

Past that, I can just say that we are working none stop to see if we can identify ANY cause for what people are seeing. We have no new information yet. We will certainly be posting if/when we find anything.

I truly wish there was more I had to say at the moment. But for now, just know we are working diligently on this subject! I'll be back with more information when we have it.
Thank you for this
 

Maxcmo

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I am a TM customer and have been thru a couple buckets in the last 6 months with no issues. I am in the process of starting up a new 265 gal system as I type this making 75 gals of water a day until I get it filled up. I am planning on using TM again. My question to everyone with issues before I do that is: has anyone had any real problems as in a tank crash or bad tank chemistry after a water change or the only issues brown crud and a citrus smell?
 

GK3

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The residue does not happen right away obviously it happens over days if not a couple weeks. And if your salt does not smell maybe it’s not part of the affected batches
100% sounds like a bacteria issue. If it was a contaminant of a mineral, it would show ASAP (unless it’s a shockingly slow reaction that causing it to leach).

I can tell you I went through a TmP bucket over 2019-second half of 2020. I had one issue with brown deposits in my mixing container. I emptied it, cleaned it with water, and rinsed with RO. Problem solved and used same bucket of TMP. To be fair it was the first time I cleaned it in 2 years. Now when TMP had supply shortage, I used cheap salt in a pinch, brown crap everywhere.

if you compare two batches of TMP pro and one is fine and “clean” while the other is clumpier and “dirty/damp” smelling, I’ll almost guarantee you get deposits. The latter sounds like moisture contamination which a) you don’t know what is in or where that moisture is from b) wet stuff that smells bad is a pretty solid indication of contamination/bacteria.

Reading a lot of these forums I don’t get the impression one plant salt is different than the other. I think it’s a combo of mixing practices and contamination (not saying it’s in TMPs plants). Just a thought, did these spend way too long in transport? Possibly on a boat outside of a New York port?
 

GK3

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100% sounds like a bacteria issue. If it was a contaminant of a mineral, it would show ASAP (unless it’s a shockingly slow reaction that causing it to leach).

I can tell you I went through a TmP bucket over 2019-second half of 2020. I had one issue with brown deposits in my mixing container. I emptied it, cleaned it with water, and rinsed with RO. Problem solved and used same bucket of TMP. To be fair it was the first time I cleaned it in 2 years. Now when TMP had supply shortage, I used cheap salt in a pinch, brown crap everywhere.

if you compare two batches of TMP pro and one is fine and “clean” while the other is clumpier and “dirty/damp” smelling, I’ll almost guarantee you get deposits. The latter sounds like moisture contamination which a) you don’t know what is in or where that moisture is from b) wet stuff that smells bad is a pretty solid indication of contamination/bacteria.

Reading a lot of these forums I don’t get the impression one plant salt is different than the other. I think it’s a combo of mixing practices and contamination (not saying it’s in TMPs plants). Just a thought, did these spend way too long in transport? Possibly on a boat outside of a New York port?
To clarify one thing, if you get salt wet (more salt than water) it tends to go from very fine and will start to stick together. So when I say “wet” it may not feel wet but the fact it’s clumping is a good indication of moisture. It won’t take much to moisture to start this. This is largely why when you get a bucket of TMP, it’s in a bag, that’s sealed, inside a bucket, thats sealed, and i like to think it’s guarded by a tiny green man carrying a tiny green dehumidifier (you can’t see the green man, but his name is Sherlock (no relation).)
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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Well now I'm in a quandary...

When I started reefing again I chose TM Pro Reef because I used the original TM (I think it is now called Classic) for years and trusted TM. I tried many salts over the years but TM and IO were the only ones I stuck with for any length of time.

I am down to about 10 gallons of my old Tropic Marine 32 gallon boxes (from the German plant) and decided I had better check out the 100 gallon box I bought from BRS in December since it is from the Turkish plant. Rather than just mix it up I had my wife (a QA Engineer by profession) smell and look at the two salts side by side. Long story short, the color is the same in both boxes but the texture of the German salt is like a powdered sugar whereas the texture of the Turkish salt is like powdered laundry detergent and they smell entirely different. She describes the smell of the German salt as fresh and clean whereas the Turkish salt smells dank and gross, rather like the salt left behind on a beach. The only sticker I can find on the box says 212852.

I was going to go ahead and mix up a couple of gallons of the new salt and test parameters but decided against it. In fact, my wife will not let me put it in our tank no matter how it tests. I really can't test everything and I can't afford to be sending salt mixes off for ICP tests.

I guess I'm just going to eat the cost of this salt as I can't afford to take a chance with losing my livestock. I don't have much but I'm on a fixed income and starting over would be cost prohibitive.

Sorry to say that Tropic Marin has lost me as a customer.
Why not contact BRS and see if they will issue a refund/credit?
Clearly, this won't solve the original problem, but I've found BRS customer service to be extremely helpful in a number of situations.
 

David_Todorov

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A local refer sent in an icp test and this was his results showed extremely high manganese and iron. For a control he also sent in the rodi water he was using, I've attached screenshots of both below.
 

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GK3

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A local refer sent in an icp test and this was his results showed extremely high manganese and iron. For a control he also sent in the rodi water he was using, I've attached screenshots of both below.
Manganese would precipitate as black. That’s really common to have in drinking water and if you have a decent amount in PPB or PPM (i forget which) it will build up on faucets and such.

Iron, I’m not sure on that one.
 

David_Todorov

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Manganese would precipitate as black. That’s really common to have in drinking water and if you have a decent amount in PPB or PPM (i forget which) it will build up on faucets and such.

Iron, I’m not sure on that one.
I did not know that about the manganese. However, if you look at the RODI ICP test, the second image, you'll see the manganese is undetectable
 

GK3

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I did not know that about the manganese. However, if you look at the RODI ICP test, the second image, you'll see the manganese is undetectable
What are the amounts of each and the units? I can’t make it out in the image. Manganese isn’t really surprising given it’s necessary for coral health.

iron as well but I don’t think a lot of it.
 

David_Todorov

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What are the amounts of each and the units? I can’t make it out in the image. Manganese isn’t really surprising given it’s necessary for coral health.

iron as well but I don’t think a lot of it.
Yeah sorry it came out blurry with that screen shot.

146
µg/l
on the manganese
27 µg/l on the iron
 

David_Todorov

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Ok, to your point, I don't think that would really affect much, and it seems to be in the realm of tropic Marin's norm. I don't doubt these folks have had issues, and I'm hoping we can figure out a root cause, bit I think that is wishful thinking.
 

wolfen281

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I hate to differ with you. And being a manufacturer I would expect my comments on this to be pretty much ignored. However, just to add a little perspective to this conversation, the increased cost of salt brands is rarely related to what is IN the salt formula. You don't pay more to get more stuff (elements) in your more expensive salt brand. (although this might be the true in some cases). The bulk of the increased cost almost always comes from the brand purchasing higher grades of raw materials. While it is true that all salt brands are "NaCl with different elements mixed in". Not all NaCl is created equal. Less expensive raw materials make a less expensive salt, but can include varying levels of different contaminants at different times. So to be clear... a good portion of what you pay for, when you are purchasing a higher priced salt product, is the insurance for what si NOT in the box or bucket, NOT the inclusion of more elements.
edit: nevermind...he replied later. Thanks!

Can you expand on what raw materials are being used in the new turkish facility that appears to now form the crud in mixing buckets that it didn't do with TM manufactured in Germany?
 
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Lou Ekus

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Can you expand on what raw materials are being used in the new turkish facility that appears to now form the crud in mixing buckets that it didn't do with TM manufactured in Germany?
There will be more information to come very shortly on this, when we know more about the issue.
 
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