cannot get nitrates down

[saltyfins]

so I have tried vinegar, and am now using NoPox, and I am sitting at 32.2 for nitrates. My po4 is at 0.08 which typically would be good. I am dosing 20cc into 250 (figured it's close...300 gallons with 200 sand and 200 rocks) plus sump
skimmer is running and collecting, pH is 8.5
alk is 8.1
everything seems fine that way, but I cannot get them down. Should I just get my po4 up, and run this thing higher? things look "ok" some color but not like it should be. I am worried about them being that high, but maybe I should be a bit more aggressive on the NoPox, and just feed more nori?
I have 17 fish in this tank, and only 4 are large....I feed 2 frozen cubes a day. typically mysis or Rods.

any advice?
Thanks so much

 

[fishywishy]

Why are you trying to lower it? 32 nitrate isn’t even bad.

 

[vetteguy53081]

so I have tried vinegar, and am now using NoPox, and I am sitting at 32.2 for nitrates. My po4 is at 0.08 which typically would be good. I am dosing 20cc into 250 (figured it's close...300 gallons with 200 sand and 200 rocks) plus sump
skimmer is running and collecting, pH is 8.5
alk is 8.1
everything seems fine that way, but I cannot get them down. Should I just get my po4 up, and run this thing higher? things look "ok" some color but not like it should be. I am worried about them being that high, but maybe I should be a bit more aggressive on the NoPox, and just feed more nori?
I have 17 fish in this tank, and only 4 are large....I feed 2 frozen cubes a day. typically mysis or Rods.

any advice?
Thanks so much

While you are in safe range for fish, may affect certain corals.
best ways to reduce is to:
decrease amount fed
Do Daily water changes of 2-3 gallons for 10-14 days
Add a skimmer and assure it is rated for tank
Add an algae reactor

 

[Dan_P]

so I have tried vinegar, and am now using NoPox, and I am sitting at 32.2 for nitrates. My po4 is at 0.08 which typically would be good. I am dosing 20cc into 250 (figured it's close...300 gallons with 200 sand and 200 rocks) plus sump
skimmer is running and collecting, pH is 8.5
alk is 8.1
everything seems fine that way, but I cannot get them down. Should I just get my po4 up, and run this thing higher? things look "ok" some color but not like it should be. I am worried about them being that high, but maybe I should be a bit more aggressive on the NoPox, and just feed more nori?
I have 17 fish in this tank, and only 4 are large....I feed 2 frozen cubes a day. typically mysis or Rods.

any advice?
Thanks so much

A couple thoughts.

Check nitrate test by testing tank water diluted with equal parts fresh saltwater. Nitrate should be halved.

Check bacteria in the aquarium water. Remove a 1 liter sample of aquarium water, place in open container, dose 0.25 mL vinegar and mix. In twenty fours test sample. Nitrate should go down 1 ppm, phosphate should go to near zero. If your nitrate test cannot detect a 1 ppm change, keep dosing and testing 24 hours after each dose for several days. If phosphate near 0, dose phosphate to ~0.5 ppm.

 

[saltyfins]

While you are in safe range for fish, may affect certain corals.
best ways to reduce is to:
decrease amount fed
Do Daily water changes of 2-3 gallons for 10-14 days
Add a skimmer and assure it is rated for tank
Add an algae reactor

well...I am acro dominant in tank.
I feed 2 cubes a day, and I am running a Q5 skimmer. it's over rated for my tank, up to 500 gallons, and 2-3 gallons a day, on a 250? I've done 30 gallons, and it didnt even budge. Sort of why I was thinking maybe bringing po4 up would be ideal? and a reactor, I have zero room for unfortunatley. Corals arent the colors they should be....there's some color, but they're not like they "should" be. this is why I feel like maybe...my tank will just run higher. but IDK so I was thinking that if I am doing all this, and it's really not budging, level the ratio out by raising po4. But again, I'm not really sure

 

[saltyfins]

A couple thoughts.

Check nitrate test by testing tank water diluted with equal parts fresh saltwater. Nitrate should be halved.

Check bacteria in the aquarium water. Remove a 1 liter sample of aquarium water, place in open container, dose 0.25 mL vinegar and mix. In twenty fours test sample. Nitrate should go down 1 ppm, phosphate should go to near zero. If your nitrate test cannot detect a 1 ppm change, keep dosing and testing 24 hours after each dose for several days. If phosphate near 0, dose phosphate to ~0.5 ppm.

So if I am dosing BioDigest weekly....would'nt I have sufficient bacteria? IDK, so I am asking. Tank is 4 yrs old next month.

 

[vetteguy53081]

well...I am acro dominant in tank.
I feed 2 cubes a day, and I am running a Q5 skimmer. it's over rated for my tank, up to 500 gallons, and 2-3 gallons a day, on a 250? I've done 30 gallons, and it didnt even budge. Sort of why I was thinking maybe bringing po4 up would be ideal? and a reactor, I have zero room for unfortunatley. Corals arent the colors they should be....there's some color, but they're not like they "should" be. this is why I feel like maybe...my tank will just run higher. but IDK so I was thinking that if I am doing all this, and it's really not budging, level the ratio out by raising po4. But again, I'm not really sure

Utilize an ICP test to assure accuracy of your test and also keep in mind, Nitrates thrive in the water column rather than in the bedding and although you did a 30g water change, sometimes it may require several of these changes but to save time and salt, I would consider and ICP test to confirm

 

[saltyfins]

So if I am dosing BioDigest weekly....would'nt I have sufficient bacteria? IDK, so I am asking. Tank is 4 yrs old next month.

correction...NOT weekly. every other week, sorry about that

 

[saltyfins]

Utilize an ICP test to assure accuracy of your test and also keep in mind, Nitrates thrive in the water column rather than in the bedding and although you did a 30g water change, sometimes it may require several of these changes but to save time and salt, I would consider and ICP test to confirm

I just completed an ICP ms test. was high there also. I run moonshine, so water changes are only if I "have" to, basically. Not sure I'm at that point just yet

 

[gbroadbridge]

so I have tried vinegar, and am now using NoPox, and I am sitting at 32.2 for nitrates. My po4 is at 0.08 which typically would be good. I am dosing 20cc into 250 (figured it's close...300 gallons with 200 sand and 200 rocks) plus sump
skimmer is running and collecting, pH is 8.5
alk is 8.1
everything seems fine that way, but I cannot get them down. Should I just get my po4 up, and run this thing higher? things look "ok" some color but not like it should be. I am worried about them being that high, but maybe I should be a bit more aggressive on the NoPox, and just feed more nori?
I have 17 fish in this tank, and only 4 are large....I feed 2 frozen cubes a day. typically mysis or Rods.

any advice?
Thanks so much

If around 30ppm is bothering you, I'd increase carbon dosing.
If you're using NOPOX I'd keep that steady and add another carbon source such as plain vinegar.

Personally in my mixed reef I'd not be concerned about 30ppm Nitrate - normally I sit at about 25ppm (Salifert)

 

[Reefahholic]

Nitrates only rise from what we put in the tank.

 

[Dan_P]

So if I am dosing BioDigest weekly....would'nt I have sufficient bacteria? IDK, so I am asking. Tank is 4 yrs old next month.

Strangely, the case might be too many bacteria. I am currently studying why carbon dosing stalls or fails.

Your system is acting like it could be carbon limited. That is why I suggest testing a sample of the water and dosing it, determining whether it is carbon limited (we would not see nitrate consumption in the sample because of excessive bacteria growth) or the nitrate production rate is very high (we would see nitrate reduction in the sample because nitrate production does not occur in the water).

 

[Pistondog]

I see no reason to raise po4.
How long have you been carbon dosing?

 

[DanyL]

If it is indeed a high nitrate production/import - than I suggest switching to use Biopellets in place of carbon dosing.

The reactors output should be pointed into the intake of your skimmer, which ensures fast and aggressive export of bacteria.

Only downside of it is that it takes about a month to culture, but once it is - it only needs topping off with new pellets once in awhile.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On the side of not excessively worrying, this is my current recommendation:

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[saltyfins]

Nitrates only rise from what we put in the tank.

but as you know, this has been an issue for a year. less feeding cause the death of 2 fish...and 2 cubes a day is fine for 17 fish, right? they eat every bit. uhhg so frustrating. maybe it just runs higher idk

 

[DanyL]

but as you know, this has been an issue for a year. less feeding cause the death of 2 fish...and 2 cubes a day is fine for 17 fish, right? they eat every bit. uhhg so frustrating. maybe it just runs higher idk

Frozen food is rich with nitrates.
Switching to a different food source may help, or at the very least rinsing it.

 

[CHSUB]

Imo, .08 ppm po4 is not going to limit no3 uptake. Ime, .00 ppm po4 limited my no3 reduction efforts but was also accompanied with pale, unhealthy corals and a lack of any algae, this with the understanding of “hobby observation”. I had great success on a large system with ~35 fish using a sulfur reactor. It is a large upfront cost and a slow process, but if done right can reduce no3 to undetectable with a Salifert Test kit, which is ideal imo.

 

[saltyfins]

Frozen food is rich with nitrates.
Switching to a different food source may help, or at the very least rinsing it.

fair enough. But, pellets and flakes arent good either lol. what would you recommend? TDI they wont eat. a few will, but then po4 goes way up. flakes...messy so, I tried switching the foods around, some this time, something different the next. same issue.

 

[saltyfins]

Imo, .08 ppm po4 is not going to limit no3 uptake. Ime, .00 ppm po4 limited my no3 reduction efforts but was also accompanied with pale, unhealthy corals and a lack of any algae, this with the understanding of “hobby observation”. I had great success on a large system with ~35 fish using a sulfur reactor. It is a large upfront cost and a slow process, but if done right can reduce no3 to undetectable with a Salifert Test kit, which is ideal imo.

well, I wasnt actually trying to get po4 that low...I am ususally right about 0.12-0.14 steadily. but the NoPox, dropped that down a bit.