Cant keep Acros for some reason...

[Oceansize]

I agree this sounds like a starvation issue, which excess lighting will only exacerbate. The fact that things get worse after a WC supports this guess.

PO4 is not too low, therefore low NO3 seems logical. How are you achieving denitrification and is it something that you can decrease the efficiency of? How well is your tank stocked?

I am having a similar issue (well, kinda the opposite really: my acro tissue looks great, no RTN/STN, but I haven't had any PE in weeks). My parameters are very similar to yours and I also dose amino acids and run carbon all the time, but I dose Acro-Power instead of RS. The backstory is I was getting an algae bloom, tested the water and found NO3 at 2 ppm and PO4 at 0.21. So I added some GFO to knock down PO4, and that is when I stopped getting PE from my acro. Therefore I assumed there was a correlation between adding GFO and closed acro polyps. After 2 weeks my PO4 had dropped to 0.03 so I removed the GFO, intentionally removing all of it in order to see if PE would return as PO4 started to rise again.

Well, PO4 has started to rise again, up to 0.13, and still no acro PE. Meanwhile, however, I just noticed this weekend that NO3 has gone from 2ppm a few weeks ago to 0 ppm now. Therefore I'm thinking it was the NO3 dropping to undetectable levels, not the PO4 dropping to accepted levels via GFO, that caused my acro to close up.

As a result, yesterday I opened up the valve on my denitrator to decrease it's efficiency. It will take a day or two for the effluent to contain any NO3, keeping my fingers crossed I can get some PE once I get an NO3 reading above 0.

My point is, I'm having a similar issue as you and my best current guess is it's related to undetectable NO3 levels. One thing that is different is that I've been acclimating some new frags and so I've been running my lights at less than half their normal intensity, perhaps that is why my acro is not declining as quickly as yours...

 

[pirate2876]

I agree this sounds like a starvation issue, which excess lighting will only exacerbate. The fact that things get worse after a WC supports this guess.

PO4 is not too low, therefore low NO3 seems logical. How are you achieving denitrification and is it something that you can decrease the efficiency of? How well is your tank stocked?

I am having a similar issue (well, kinda the opposite really: my acro tissue looks great, no RTN/STN, but I haven't had any PE in weeks). My parameters are very similar to yours and I also dose amino acids and run carbon all the time, but I dose Acro-Power instead of RS. The backstory is I was getting an algae bloom, tested the water and found NO3 at 2 ppm and PO4 at 0.21. So I added some GFO to knock down PO4, and that is when I stopped getting PE from my acro. Therefore I assumed there was a correlation between adding GFO and closed acro polyps. After 2 weeks my PO4 had dropped to 0.03 so I removed the GFO, intentionally removing all of it in order to see if PE would return as PO4 started to rise again.

Well, PO4 has started to rise again, up to 0.13, and still no acro PE. Meanwhile, however, I just noticed this weekend that NO3 has gone from 2ppm a few weeks ago to 0 ppm now. Therefore I'm thinking it was the NO3 dropping to undetectable levels, not the PO4 dropping to accepted levels via GFO, that caused my acro to close up.

As a result, yesterday I opened up the valve on my denitrator to decrease it's efficiency. It will take a day or two for the effluent to contain any NO3, keeping my fingers crossed I can get some PE once I get an NO3 reading above 0.

My point is, I'm having a similar issue as you and my best current guess is it's related to undetectable NO3 levels. One thing that is different is that I've been acclimating some new frags and so I've been running my lights at less than half their normal intensity, perhaps that is why my acro is not declining as quickly as yours...

I use a Cermedia block for bio filtration. My rock is mostly man made pieces from the Alternative reef.

I think I will have to shut the halides down until I can get my NO3 up. This may explain while the frags I put in the sump do better than the frags in the main tank.

 

[Russ265]

I use a Cermedia block for bio filtration. My rock is mostly man made pieces from the Alternative reef.

I think I will have to shut the halides down until I can get my NO3 up. This may explain while the frags I put in the sump do better than the frags in the main tank.

gimme that birdsnest pic
i have a feeling nitrate is killin ur corals (lack of)

 

[bamareef]

I am having an similar problem. My LFS says to remove and dip the corals. Following this thread and hope to learn something useful.

 

[chaoticreefer]

I am curious about this thread. I am having similar problems. I can't keep acros and montis. But...my birdnest sure is happy, good PE, not necessary growing in length, but the stalk is getting thicker. My LPSs are happy, the zoas are doing so-so, not really populating, but not reversing course. I started reefkeeping since 1999 with good success, but this 34g (started March 2014) has me scratching my head with a dumbfounded look on my face. My reefkeeping friends who have great success can't figure it out either. I am to the point I am started to buy new equip for a tank upgrade (going to go to a 70-80g cube) and have given up on this tank.

 

[Russ265]

I am curious about this thread. I am having similar problems. I can't keep acros and montis. But...my birdnest sure is happy, good PE, not necessary growing in length, but the stalk is getting thicker. My LPSs are happy, the zoas are doing so-so, not really populating, but not reversing course. I started reefkeeping since 1999 with good success, but this 34g (started March 2014) has me scratching my head with a dumbfounded look on my face. My reefkeeping friends who have great success can't figure it out either. I am to the point I am started to buy new equip for a tank upgrade (going to go to a 70-80g cube) and have given up on this tank.

curious your lighting.

 

[Orly20]

Following

 

[chaoticreefer]

curious your lighting.

1 Kessil A360WE with 4 T5s (all 24" ATI Blue Plus)

 

[reid429]

Tropic Marin salt is awful

 

[Russ265]

Tropic Marin salt is awful

i know quite a few LE coral distributors who swear by it.

dont think its the salt

 

[Russ265]

1 Kessil A360WE with 4 T5s (all 24" ATI Blue Plus)

well that covers that...

how do they perish?

 

[chaoticreefer]

Survive a week or 2 and then start dropping off like flies, one by one. All by RTN. No bleaching or anything, no pre-existing signs.

 

[Russ265]

Survive a week or 2 and then start dropping off like flies, one by one. All by RTN. No bleaching or anything, no pre-existing signs.

what is your alk, nitrate and phosphate?

 

[chaoticreefer]

what is your nitrate and phosphate?

I have played with those two to see if there's a sweet spot. But every time I think I have finally figured it and ask my buds to some free testers (frags), but NOPE, denied (I get same results).

I have played with nitrates as high as 5-10 ppm, and all the way down to undetectable. When I have it down that low I feed more with fish and coral food and add aminos. I have played with phosphates between 0.03ppm to undetectable. This is over more then the course of a year, trying to figure out whats going on.

Currently, I am running biopellets so it's low nutrients while feeding $%^& loads and adding aminos.

 

[twilliard]

Too much change for acros ?

 

[chaoticreefer]

what is your alk, nitrate and phosphate?

Oops, missed the Alk part. It's stays around 7.6 - 9.4. It stable enough that I go weeks at a time testing the same number each week. It's currently 7.6.

 

[chaoticreefer]

Too much change for acros ?

Nope, can't be change because I don't change anything when I restock. And I don't restock until after few months of the new stability.

 

[PPi]

I am going through your same issue and very frustrated. After this great thread, i am leaning towards stripping nutrients to quickly, possible too big if alk drop, all with an abundance of light. I stopped carbon and gfo, snipped what little coral is left of my acros and lessened my hours from 11 total to 8 hours. I am on a thorough regent of testing alk. This seems to happen every time i run carbon and gfo for a week. Thus the thinking of the stripping of nutrients too quickly. I will cross my fingers and hope for the best. Good luck to you

 

[Russ265]

I have played with those two to see if there's a sweet spot. But every time I think I have finally figured it and ask my buds to some free testers (frags), but NOPE, denied (I get same results).

I have played with nitrates as high as 5-10 ppm, and all the way down to undetectable. When I have it down that low I feed more with fish and coral food and add aminos. I have played with phosphates between 0.03ppm to undetectable. This is over more then the course of a year, trying to figure out whats going on.

Currently, I am running biopellets so it's low nutrients while feeding $%^& loads and adding aminos.

i dont advocate 0 nitrates and phosphates. your zooxanthellae cant photosynthesize anything, and with a decent light can cause them to decline.

corals are mixotrophic. i see it time and time again "feed more" when very little of their energy is derived from food.

majority is from the sun and photosynthesis that in turn provides the coral a load of it's energy.

if it were my system i would go 5-10 nitrate, .02-.04 phosphate. keep alk at 8 solid, and lower the lights to 50%

im assuming based on your experience you have a good amount of flow. i would not give the corals a velocity flow like placing it in front of a powerhead, but rather look at their polyps and see if they sway.

if that doesnt work, i would expect something else is at play. sure the corals may brown a bit during your test period, but they wouldnt rtn.

another culprit could be a faulty refractometer where your salinity is much too high or too low and that your existing corals are used to it, while the new additions decline.

7.5 is fine ulns but realize your lighting should be lower as well. it is a major balancing act

 

[chaoticreefer]

I am going through your same issue and very frustrated. After this great thread, i am leaning towards stripping nutrients to quickly, possible too big if alk drop, all with an abundance of light. I stopped carbon and gfo, snipped what little coral is left of my acros and lessened my hours from 11 total to 8 hours. I am on a thorough regent of testing alk. This seems to happen every time i run carbon and gfo for a week. Thus the thinking of the stripping of nutrients too quickly. I will cross my fingers and hope for the best. Good luck to you

I thought that too and tested that theory, unfortunately it wasn't my problem. I hope, that it works out for you.