Captive Bred Regal and Multibar Angel

[Steve and his Animals]

Making this thread in case anyone is curious about how the captive bred angels of late hold up.

I purchased a captive bred regal angel a little over a month ago. She was about the size of a quarter when I got her. She spent the first couple days/week or two being very picky about what she ate/refusing to eat in front of me, as a result she lot a bit of weight (slight pinching behind the head but generally still alert and active). After letting her out of the acclimation box, she is at least sampling whatever I give the QT tank. Pellets, San Francisco angel/butterfly diet, mini mysis, and just started picking at nori. Not quite stuffing herself as I'd expected, but eating.

Today, I received my captive bred multibar angel (Paracentropyge multifasciata) from Biota (not sure if they actually bred it, would guess it came from Bali Aquarich). She's around the same size as the regal when I got her, maybe slightly bigger. Very healthy and alert looking, seemed to be curious of me when I looked over the tank. I have her in my long acclimation box with some other small fish until she gets comfortable with the foods I offer. A good sign from the get go, she seemed to be picking at the mini TDO pellets and mini mysis very soon after she was out of the bag.

I will probably update this thread once in a while as they progress. My first impressions of these fish: while they seem very bold and healthy for fish so small, they still seem to take time to get used to their new environment and whatever foods you regularly offer. Basically, even though they are captive bred, this isn't as simple as a CB clownfish or something. Even the CB majestic angels (Pomacanthus navarchus) I've dealt with seem to be much more robust, which falls in line with that species' wild representatives being considerably easier to keep than the other two species here. This is just my experience, however, every fish is different.

 

[blaxsun]

Appreciate the insight. Captive clownfish can take forever to figure out how to home anemones, so being captive bred doesn't necessarily make them the sharpest crayon in the box, either.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Appreciate the insight. Captive clownfish can take forever to figure out how to home anemones, so being captive bred doesn't necessarily make them the sharpest crayon in the box, either.

It's interesting because they do seem very intelligent, as their reduced fear of people makes them more inquisitive; it lets them show their personality a bit more (watch them both slowly approach me as I film them). Granted, I was always under the impression angelfish were very intelligent. I'm curious how this aspect of personality develops as they age.

 

[Zionas]

Hi any updates?

 

[matthew_coletta]

Making this thread in case anyone is curious about how the captive bred angels of late hold up.

I purchased a captive bred regal angel a little over a month ago. She was about the size of a quarter when I got her. She spent the first couple days/week or two being very picky about what she ate/refusing to eat in front of me, as a result she lot a bit of weight (slight pinching behind the head but generally still alert and active). After letting her out of the acclimation box, she is at least sampling whatever I give the QT tank. Pellets, San Francisco angel/butterfly diet, mini mysis, and just started picking at nori. Not quite stuffing herself as I'd expected, but eating.

Today, I received my captive bred multibar angel (Paracentropyge multifasciata) from Biota (not sure if they actually bred it, would guess it came from Bali Aquarich). She's around the same size as the regal when I got her, maybe slightly bigger. Very healthy and alert looking, seemed to be curious of me when I looked over the tank. I have her in my long acclimation box with some other small fish until she gets comfortable with the foods I offer. A good sign from the get go, she seemed to be picking at the mini TDO pellets and mini mysis very soon after she was out of the bag.

I will probably update this thread once in a while as they progress. My first impressions of these fish: while they seem very bold and healthy for fish so small, they still seem to take time to get used to their new environment and whatever foods you regularly offer. Basically, even though they are captive bred, this isn't as simple as a CB clownfish or something. Even the CB majestic angels (Pomacanthus navarchus) I've dealt with seem to be much more robust, which falls in line with that species' wild representatives being considerably easier to keep than the other two species here. This is just my experience, however, every fish is different.

Really interesting thread and definitely will keep up with this. I suppose the main advantage is they’re not caught inhumanly/with cyanide. This definitely gives you a great chance at success with them. Since many parts of Indonesia still use this method/don’t feed enough during transport.

 

[Zionas]

Awesome grabs. Is your Regal misbarred on both sides? I’ve seen much more misbarred CB Regals and TBH I much prefer the non-misbarred / slightly misbarred specimens. Probably just a result of early batches?

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Hi any updates?

I lost the regal a couple weeks ago. She never really ate like I expected a captive bred fish to. That being said, it was probably naive of me to expect them to be fed normal aquarium fare by the breeders as they are still so small.

I'm not making the same mistake with the multibar, she was tentatively picking at arctipods the first week but I wasn't risking her appetite not keeping up with her small size, so I started offering her live baby brine shrimp. She seems to enjoy that much more. Will probably gut load the brine shrimp with spirulina/phytoplankton and try to mix in other foods gradually so she gets the idea that this is all stuff she should be eating.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Awesome grabs. Is your Regal misbarred on both sides? I’ve seen much more misbarred CB Regals and TBH I much prefer the non-misbarred / slightly misbarred specimens. Probably just a result of early batches?

A lot of the regals are misbarred, but it remains to be seen how that develops as they age. Elliot's Marine Collectors started selling the more extremely misbarred individuals as "designers," which of course means an even fatter price tag.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Really interesting thread and definitely will keep up with this. I suppose the main advantage is they’re not caught inhumanly/with cyanide. This definitely gives you a great chance at success with them. Since many parts of Indonesia still use this method/don’t feed enough during transport.

The capture issue is the one I care most about, since, if you've ever tried to keep a wild multibar, it's a very serious detriment to the keeping of the species in most cases. Regals are challenging in their own right, but multibars are a whole different world of issues. I've had 7 wild caught individuals, not a single one even gave a hint at being interested in prepared foods.

 

[bruno3047]

I lost the regal a couple weeks ago. She never really ate like I expected a captive bred fish to. That being said, it was probably naive of me to expect them to be fed normal aquarium fare by the breeders as they are still so small.

I'm not making the same mistake with the multibar, she was tentatively picking at arctipods the first week but I wasn't risking her appetite not keeping up with her small size, so I started offering her live baby brine shrimp. She seems to enjoy that much more. Will probably gut load the brine shrimp with spirulina/phytoplankton and try to mix in other foods gradually so she gets the idea that this is all stuff she should be eating.

No need to try to gut load the brine shrimp if you feed them during the first one or two days after hatch. In any case you can’t gut load them at that point because they are still feeding off the yolk sac exclusively. There’s nothing you could give your tiny fish that is more nutritious than that yolk sac anyway. The nauplii don’t start feeding externally so they can be gut loaded until the third or fourth day after hatch. You’ll know that they are ready to start eating externally when the orange color is gone. Newly hatched brine shrimp are my go-to fare for my tiny newcomers. To wean them onto something easier like Hikari Marine S pellets, just throw a few in with the brine shrimp when you feed. Before long, you’ll see them attack the pellets with gusto. See the link. Good luck with your new angel.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

No need to try to gut load the brine shrimp if you feed them during the first one or two days after hatch. In any case you can’t gut load them at that point because they are still feeding off the yolk sac exclusively. There’s nothing you could give your tiny fish that is more nutritious than that yolk sac anyway. The nauplii don’t start feeding externally so they can be gut loaded until the third or fourth day after hatch. You’ll know that they are ready to start eating externally when the orange color is gone. Newly hatched brine shrimp are my go-to fare for my tiny newcomers. To wean them onto something easier like Hikari Marine S pellets, just throw a few in with the brine shrimp when you feed. Before long, you’ll see them attack the pellets with gusto. See the link. Good luck with your new angel.

Good point. I was thinking more along the lines of raising some as a treat for my larger fish/having the batch last more than a couple days, but of course the fresh hatch is the most nutritious.

 

[Pneumatic_Addict]

Following along on the Multibar.

FWIW, I wouldn't beat yourself up on the regal. I had 2 of 3 pass the same way. Same with a Venustus. Though I think part of it had to do with the individual I purchased them from. I've heard the same from a few people now.

I really do think Biota needs to hold onto these fish for a little longer until they're eating prepared foods with gusto, not just picking. I understand the costs associated with doing so, but the reputation of the fish in the community would be a lot stronger. It's either that, or no QT and straight into an established tank where they can pick all day until they're ready to eat.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Following along on the Multibar.

FWIW, I wouldn't beat yourself up on the regal. I had 2 of 3 pass the same way. Same with a Venustus. Though I think part of it had to do with the individual I purchased them from. I've heard the same from a few people now.

I really do think Biota needs to hold onto these fish for a little longer until they're eating prepared foods with gusto, not just picking. I understand the costs associated with doing so, but the reputation of the fish in the community would be a lot stronger. It's either that, or no QT and straight into an established tank where they can pick all day until they're ready to eat.

I agree, they should sell them larger. Either that, or put disclaimers on what they should be fed. No more of that "feed a nutritious diet of PE mysis and masstick" crap. PE mysis is longer than the fish. Only prepared foods I've noticed they have a more immediate interest in is arctipods.

Vid from a few days ago. She's catching on with the arctipods, but still picky about the "pieces" she takes. She's getting there.

 

[Zionas]

I see. Did you also these angels as captive bred specimens from Biota? What do you think went wrong?

 

[Steve and his Animals]

I see. Did you also these angels as captive bred specimens from Biota? What do you think went wrong?

The regal was from Quality Marine, the multibar was from Reef Beauties (not sure this matters though, I'm pretty sure all these angels are coming from Bali Aquarich with the exception of the ones direct from Biota; even then I think the regals are all from Bali Aquarich).

The regal never really took to prepared foods like I expected a captive bred fish to (as I said before), and I was negligent in trying a large variety like I should have, thinking "oh it will figure it out, it's captive bred." The multibar I started on live baby brine a day or two after it arrived, and that seemed to have gotten her used to the idea of feeding off of stuff floating around her.

 

[Pneumatic_Addict]

I see. Did you also these angels as captive bred specimens from Biota? What do you think went wrong?

The three individuals I reached out to got theirs indirectly from Biota. Two didn’t eat and died. The third guy put his in an established reef from the get. Didn’t see it eat for two weeks but constantly picked. I believe last I reached out his was eating TDO.

I was the same as OP, figured the first two would eat as advertised coming in. They died. I hadn’t lost a fish in quite some time, so it was definitely a shocker coming from CB.

I had Tigger Pods, Calanus, Fish Eggs, TDO, NLS + Garlic and some rock from the bottom of my LFS’s LR bin on hand for the third. She did extremely well, got nice and plump. But even then I didn’t see her touch pellets for the first week. Unfortunately, we went out of town and our house sitter didn’t feed my QT tank all weekend. Heartbreaker.

To the OP - I agree man. Bali holding them another 2-3 months would solve a lot of issues. I’m trying to be detailed in this thread incase someone comes along searching for help. I wanna see how these Multibars do first before I dive in again. Yours looks great so far!

 

[Zionas]

Thanks for the info! It looks like I’ll be starting with CB specimens of Majestic, Goldflakes and Blue Lines instead before attempting a CB Regal. I’m also not a big fan of the very misbarred individuals. You think those are a result of early batches?

I’d love to eventually have CB Multibar / Venusta / Colin’s though, Bali Aquarich does Lemonpeels too so maybe start with a CB Lemonpeel instead?

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Thanks for the info! It looks like I’ll be starting with CB specimens of Majestic, Goldflakes and Blue Lines instead before attempting a CB Regal. I’m also not a big fan of the very misbarred individuals. You think those are a result of early batches?

I’d love to eventually have CB Multibar / Venusta / Colin’s though, Bali Aquarich does Lemonpeels too so maybe start with a CB Lemonpeel instead?

The only other species I have experience with personally are the majestics. We had a few at the store. Not only did they survive a 40 hour shipping delay, they both ate like pigs and are still with the people we sold them to.

I imagine the more common species are going to be more hardy, just like their wild counterparts. From what I've seen, I believe the CB coral beauties and lemonpeels are sold a bit larger. The bluelines are from Poma Labs, which are supposed to also be a good size.

 

[Sgchick]

The only other species I have experience with personally are the majestics. We had a few at the store. Not only did they survive a 40 hour shipping delay, they both ate like pigs and are still with the people we sold them to.

I imagine the more common species are going to be more hardy, just like their wild counterparts. From what I've seen, I believe the CB coral beauties and lemonpeels are sold a bit larger. The bluelines are from Poma Labs, which are supposed to also be a good size.

I just got a Lemon Peel from Biota a week ago and she is super tiny…about the size of a quarter maybe. But she seems to be adjusting very well and picking and eating alongside my much bigger fish. She’s super cute!

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Update: I got a second multibar from @Biota_Marine as I wanted to build my way up to a small harem (thinking 3). I immediately noticed the new multibar has a birth defect. It's right gill plate seems to curve/is shorter than normal and so it sticks out decently. Don't know if this will persist into adulthood; I'm betting that it will. Brings into question how these breeders go about culling deformed babies (whether they do at all, if they do it only if there is severity to the deformity, if they don't want to lose potential money on these fish that take a lot of work to breed and raise up, etc.). I'll try to post a video when they finish uploading.