Carbon Dosing with UV Sterilizer

[gguertin145]

I recently had a problem with Dinos and bought a UV Sterilizer which cleared it up great!

Now I am looking at the idea of Carbon Dosing with the use of UV running during the night to kill bacteria. I have read many times you cant carbon dose with UV but I am wondering has someone actually tried this? The thought would be the carbon dose would happen as soon as my tank lights turn on and the UV shuts off and then has all day to do its thing. Doesn't this bacteria mostly populate on surfaces like the rock?

Just curious if anyone else has tried this. I figure the worst case scenario is I do not see any Nitrate or Phosphate reduction. Is it possible I would just have to dose more because some of the bacteria is killed off? I have a hard time believing it cant work and all of it is killed or why wouldnt the UV kill all beneficial bacteria as well.

Thoughts?

 

[jsker]

Good question. :)

 

[Deep]

I recently had a problem with Dinos and bought a UV Sterilizer which cleared it up great!

Now I am looking at the idea of Carbon Dosing with the use of UV running during the night to kill bacteria. I have read many times you cant carbon dose with UV but I am wondering has someone actually tried this? The thought would be the carbon dose would happen as soon as my tank lights turn on and the UV shuts off and then has all day to do its thing. Doesn't this bacteria mostly populate on surfaces like the rock?

Just curious if anyone else has tried this. I figure the worst case scenario is I do not see any Nitrate or Phosphate reduction. Is it possible I would just have to dose more because some of the bacteria is killed off? I have a hard time believing it cant work and all of it is killed or why wouldnt the UV kill all beneficial bacteria as well.

Thoughts?

First off, UV does not kill anything. It just sterilizes. Second, carbon dosing will increase bacterial populations overall - in the water column and on the rocks etc.
That said, if you are carbon dosing to reduce N/P levels in your tank, then the UV should not have a material impact on that outcome even if you run it 24/7.
What is more important is that if you are carbon dosing to reduce N/P levels, you should run your skimmer slightly wet so the actual nutrient export can happen ( bacteria can be exported using the skimmer cup).

 

[gguertin145]

So this all makes sense to me.

My tank is in a perfect spot to test this so I guess I am going to. I have .02 pho4 and 10 nitrate right now with a 180g sps tank and very little fish load (blue, yellow, kole tangs, 2 clowns and a damsel) I feed pretty heavy but with the low fish count my numbers don't swing much at all. I am honestly pretty happy with the nitrate and phosphate but I will skim a little wetter based on what @Deep said.

1. Uv doesn't kill just sterilizes I just mispoke on this so I get this
2. If the bacteria is sterile how does it increase the population? I believe the concept here is it never gets everything and the ones it misses keep reproducing right? If so I feel like this means I should be carbon dosing or anyone running UV should be carbon dosing just to help replenish the good bacteria to begin with? To top it off it almost sounds like I should be dosing a bacteria source as well?
3. The time period for running the UV. I was thinking I would run it just at night because the main reason I ran it to begin with was the slime and dino issues I seemed to constantly be facing over the last year. If I used chemi-clean then the Dinos would get worse and the SPS hated it.

A little more background. I am not looking to do this to combat a current problem I really love automation and have just about everything on this tank automated with some sort off backup. I have run zeovit, scrubbers, and refugiums over the years and just love the simplicity of dosing vodka/vinegar or nopox. I can easily adjust a dosing pump, lower amminos or coral foods and never have to physically remove cheato or clean a scrubber.

 

[piranhaman00]

I run UV and carbon dose. I have been carbon dosing for 3 months or so with no results yet but I am seeing white film on glass.

Carbon dosing is also increasing cyano so I am not sure if its worth continuing.

 

[gguertin145]

So what gallon tank and how much are you dosing?
Are you on the high end of the scale or just dosing a little bit?
Do you also dose a bacteria source like Microbacter7?

 

[gguertin145]

Not trying to grill you about your tank either just trying to get some more information on this. If I cannot get this to work I will just go back to cheato.

 

[Deep]

There is one study done with

2. If the bacteria is sterile how does it increase the population? I believe the concept here is it never gets everything and the ones it misses keep reproducing right? If so I feel like this means I should be carbon dosing or anyone running UV should be carbon dosing just to help replenish the good bacteria to begin with? To top it off it almost sounds like I should be dosing a bacteria source as well?

there was an experiment comducted with a UV during carbon dosing which showed no significant impact of the UV being on or off to bacterial populations. The skimmer probably removes more bacteria than the UV.

 

[Hunchy]

From my understanding you can use both you just need to tirn UV off for like 6 hours for the bacteria to settle out onto surfaces. Yes you will loose some that is in the water colom but the majority should be on the surfaces of the rocks . But im still kinda new

 

[Hunchy]

My plan is to run a reactor for the carbon source and to propogate the bacteria on and then even if the UV sterilizes the bacteria it should alreasy have the po4 in them or have converted no3 into nitrogen gas so theoretically the bacteria should still be able to be eaten by the coral and skimmed out exporting the nutrients but propgating in the reactor and on the rocks so your idea of running at night should give the bacteria plent of time to do its thing.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

i run uv and ozone 24 7 for many years,, i dont see any downside to uv and i use nopox

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I personally prefer the bacteria spurred by organic carbon dosing to be consumed by filter feeders or skimmed out, not killed in a UV.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

yep many ways to accomplish the same goal, after re reading my post , can see where it is not very clear as to why i use ozone and uv . my filtration has been built to handle my bioloads , mine is heavy have 800 gallons of predator reef and a 5000 gallon lagoon.

i feed over 20-30lbs of protein a week . My theory is there are plenty of microbes in the 1000+ lbs of live rock in my systems that utilize the ethanol, and anything killed in the uv ends up in the skimmer . if not for ozone /uv my pond would be green . i dont use ethanol(nopox) every day often just for a week at a time or so to deal with flair ups.. I also run a large fluidized sand filter with 60 lbs of sand in it on the lagoon but never recommend fludized sand filters to anyone unless they ask about them specifically. You need to be able to keeping the pump running 24/7 they can easily wipe out a tank after a power outage when they restart.

 

[Hippopus_clam]

this an old thread but this is a good read for those interested in the question

Can You Run UV When Carbon Dosing?

Wondering if your UV sterilizer will kill off your carbon dosing bacteria? Learn how UV and carbon dosing actually work together to control nutrients, prevent bacterial blooms, and keep your reef tank healthy and crystal clear.

reefcoaquariums.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

First off, UV does not kill anything. It just sterilizes.

No longer active and 5 year old comment but still deserves a response because the statement is not overly clear.

In context here sterilization means killing living bacteria, cells and small organisms by destroying their DNA. They may not die instantly, but they die either because they can no longer function or the cells trigger a self destruct mechanism due to the damage.

 

[Dan_P]

No longer active and 5 year old comment but still deserves a response because the statement is not overly clear.

In context here sterilization means killing living bacteria, cells and small organisms by destroying their DNA. They may not die instantly, but they die either because they can no longer function or the cells trigger a self destruct mechanism due to the damage.

You’re saying this is not castration-like sterilization where I might still like a sip of vodka afterwards, but rather, it is a turning out the lights sterilization. Makes sense.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

this an old thread but this is a good read for those interested in the question

Can You Run UV When Carbon Dosing?

Wondering if your UV sterilizer will kill off your carbon dosing bacteria? Learn how UV and carbon dosing actually work together to control nutrients, prevent bacterial blooms, and keep your reef tank healthy and crystal clear.

reefcoaquariums.com

FWIW, I do not agree with some of the assertions in that article.

Curiously, they seem to think a UV is helpful at dealing with cyano and pathogens, but not harmful for good bacteria. It kills pathogens, but not bacteria. Right. lol

A curious dichotomy that it only does bad things to bad creatures and not good ones. lol

The comment about stable parameters seems even more weird and unlikely.
Stable Parameters: By preventing free-floating bacterial populations from getting out of control, your UV prevents those pesky parameter swings from occurring when bacterial populations run amok.