Cary's First 40B Reef Setup

caltman

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Hi Everyone! First post here so please be gentle with me! I have been reading everything I can find and researching out questions as they come to me... but seriously, I am a total newbie here and I am finding myself seriously stupid about this whole thing, at least at the moment.

To tell you just how dumb I still am, I bought a used tank and some used equipment from a local guy who has been in this for a long while, and whom I believe is a member on this forum somewhere... at least we discussed this place during our chat. Along with the tank he sold me a wave pump a heater and a light... and I was all set for my grand entry into this hobby.

So, I bought 3x 20# bags of living sand and dumped them into 25 gallons of my newly mixed reef water... with the wave pump in the tank and running. I heard the motor fail.... sort of a pop and a zap at the same time. Lesson learned. Sand and impellors do not mix well. One would have hoped that I had been smart enough to know better than to do this... so there you go... I am the quintessential dumb newbie at this moment in time, doing extremely dumb things.

Two more wave pumps arrived yesterday and I got them installed, along with a backup 300w heater and a good thermometer. The picture I am going to share later was from yesterday just after installing the new pumps, now moving a good circular flow around the tank. The cloudiness is still there while the sand continues settling to the bottom, and as of this morning, with the much better circulation, the water is beginning to clear very dramatically.

Along with the 60 pounds of living sand, I have 2 large living rocks and a few small ones that another friend sold me, totally dried out with all the microbes in hibernation, but I am confident after all my reading on this forum so far that after a couple of weeks the rocks will have living microbes on them again, especially with all the living sand now in the tank. I plan on being patient, cycling this new tank as long as it takes, but I don't expect it to take too awfully long because of the $100+ sand investment. I will do the test of adding in some ammonia to see if the microbes can deal with it, in a week or so, just to see where I am at. Other than salinity, I have done no other measurements or tests yet on my new water, which all came in via 1 gallon jugs of RO water from the grocery store and mixed with the reef salt in 5 gallon buckets. I did add the microbe packets that came with the sand, and I have added the appropriate cap full measurements of water conditioner.

I have also purchased a 10g long to use as a refugium and I have ordered a $50 kit to build in the partitions and sock holder, and am reviewing plans to make a DIY pvc tubing spillover and gravity return to the lower tank.

So far, it is my belief that things are going well. The tank is still sitting solidly on my new DIY 42" high table and refugium cabinet and the tank itself did not spring any leaks after its 25 mile move across town in the back of my pickup and filling it with 25g of water.

As of now, I have also formerly introduced myself to what seems to be the greatest forum on reefing that I have seen, and all seems right with the world... at least for now, before I have managed to kill any living things. It seems that here in the beginning, the trick is to throw enough money at the project to get things balanced, and then work slowly up to a point of adding life (more money), hoping to maintain the balance as we move forward. I am sure I will screw things up at some point, but hopefully with the help of the knowledge available at this special forum, my inexperience won't turn this project into a total disaster.

Later today I will post a couple of pictures, showing the sand clouded water from yesterday along with a picture this afternoon of a lot clearer water and with a happy new reef enthusiast behind the lens. Thank you everyone here for sharing all of your knowledge and experience. A special greeting also to my new friend in LSMO, who should recognize himself from my description above!
 

Kristopher Conlin

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Hello and welcome to reef2reef and the hobby! That's very exciting! A 40 breeder is a fantastic size for you first tank.

If you don't mind I had a few questions for you and one piece of advice. How are planning on plumbing the sump to the main display? And do you plan on keeping fish only or Coral as well?

As for the advice I would be careful using R.O. water from grocery stores. they don't have as many stages as a reefing R.O. Unit would. And they may not keep up on changing the filters as often as they should. It may not be a bad idea to get it tested and see how pure it is.

Obviously this depends on how good the starting water is. Around me tap water is upwards of 300tds(very bad). So the grocery store R.O. puts out about 40 tds. which after learning the hard way I would never put in my tank.

I hope you have good luck! Ask lots of questions we are all still learning together.
 
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caltman

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Hello and welcome to reef2reef and the hobby! That's very exciting! A 40 breeder is a fantastic size for you first tank.

If you don't mind I had a few questions for you and one piece of advice. How are planning on plumbing the sump to the main display? And do you plan on keeping fish only or Coral as well?

As for the advice I would be careful using R.O. water from grocery stores. they don't have as many stages as a reefing R.O. Unit would. And they may not keep up on changing the filters as often as they should. It may not be a bad idea to get it tested and see how pure it is.

Obviously this depends on how good the starting water is. Around me tap water is upwards of 300tds(very bad). So the grocery store R.O. puts out about 40 tds. which after learning the hard way I would never put in my tank.

I hope you have good luck! Ask lots of questions we are all still learning together.
Hi Kristopher! Thanks for responding! So I have already messed up... what problems do I have in store for me then with even this mildly contaminated water? Will the problem go away with regular water changes, assuming I find a better quality source? From the grocery store, would it be better to use pure distilled water... it is roughly the same price? It's going to be a while before I can set up my own reef quality RO system... so what source would you use for your water in the mean time?

There are DIY articles on how to build a DIY spillover and gravity pump using PVC and some tubing, which seems to be jam proof if for instance, the power goes off. I am fairly handy with a PVC cutter, so it doesn't seem very difficult to get the water to flow down into the refugium. I will be ordering a new return pump once I see how much room I have to work with in the new refugium build, and I plan on putting a disbursing return nozzle of some kind on the opposite end of the display tank as where the spillover is. I am sure that when I start building the baffles in the 10g tank, I will come up with lots more questions about the refugium build.

I am planning to start with a couple of corals and a couple of clown fish and start building in some more invertebrates as we go forward, mostly centering in on a colorful coral presentation with just a few fish.
 

Kristopher Conlin

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It honestly depends on what is in the source water to begin with. But if it's leaving some TDS(total dissolved solids) it could be anything from phosphates to ammonia. For me it was phosphates and silicates which encouraged algae growth and diatoms. It took me a while to figure out what the problem was. Once I bought my own R.O. Unit all that went away.

It could be that the source water for the grocery store is very good and they keep up on changing their filters but you wouldn't know without testing it so it's a bit of a gamble.

Distilled it typically better then grocery store R.O. from my understanding and is probably a safer bet. Especially if it's the same price. Maybe some other people can chime in with their thoughts on it as well?

As far as messing up all ready that's the best way to learn! It's not too big of a deal as if you waterchange during your cycle I'm sure you will be fine when you start to add livestock.
 
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I got home a little while ago from work (I am semi retired) and snapped some more pictures. Here is how the tank looked yesterday when I installed the new wave pumps, still very clouded from the sand dump the day before:

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Here it is today, approximately 24 hours later. The sand is beginning to settle to the bottom now, leaving a fine coating on all surfaces. I lightly scrubbed the front side in order to be able to take a better picture, and I dumped out my salinity meter so it is reading more accurately. The temperature is holding steady at 77.7 degrees, according to the digital thermometer sitting near the bottom.

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This next picture is for everyone's enjoyment, it is my DIY table and storage cabinet, so far. It is a special build that allows the left side of the tank to extend a bit over the side of my desk and about a foot above it. This puts the display tank as the central focus point as you walk into my house or occupy the living room. Mine is a tiny house, and one that is going to be greatly enhanced by having a saltwater tank supplying its special and constant ambiance and atmosphere to the environment. I plan on putting front and side panels on the cabinet portion that will hide the refugium, and attached to the shell with magnets for easy removal to work on things below. I will attempt to achieve both functionality and add a bit of beauty into the room at the same time.

20210324_133206.jpg
 
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caltman

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I searched for a while but couldn't figure out how to word the inquiry to get the information I am looking for... so I will ask it here and see what sort of advice pops up.

I need to buy a skimmer, so first I am wondering how large is appropriate to put in the refugium for a 40b/10 system. Are the $100 ones good enough to start with, or should I spend $200 right away and not go cheap?

Second question: Just how much flow is appropriate between the display tank and the refugium, ie, how many gallons per hour should my pump be?

Here is my plan so far, please tell me if I am about to screw up again. Right now, with the dirty and dried out living rocks bought from one place, whatever comes in with 3 bags of living sand, and starting off with a used tank that I didn't know better than to wash out first, I am starting my reefing life with what I assume is an algae bloom... the water is remaining cloudy and I am not convinced anymore that it is all sand still settling. Also, I can clearly see algae growing on the sides of the tank, now that my lights have arrived.

The last comment from a friend seemed to be asking how serious I am about this, as well as being the clue to solving my problem. He asked if I had bought a skimmer yet. Point taken and I will be acting on it as soon as I get some input to my questions.

I am also assuming that right now there is no food in this new water as it cycles for the first time, to support these algae and that they have no choice but to die off. I am tempted to keep the lights on and let them do just that. Again, is this a screw up? Refugium kit arrives tomorrow and by the end of the weekend I should have an overflow built and plumbed down to the lower tank. I am confident that just with a couple of filter socks and a skimmer, this water is going to clear.

After some more reading I am adding another 8 gallons to the tank, to get it up near the top. This time, being much more patient and slightly more wise, I have mixed up the first 4 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket, and put a pump in there to mix it up for me. I have also put my spare heater in there to bring it up to temperature. I am in no hurry and will add this water to the tank in the morning, after it is well mixed.

Greetings to everyone who has looked in on this thread and saw another newbie struggling to get started. I will try not to be too dumb for too long as I keep working on this first tank. Thank you for your support! At the moment I am in awe of most of you as I start to even learn the language that surrounds this hobby. Right now I am so overwhelmed that it seems I will never learn how to do this in a way that I can afford, but rest assured... I am working on it. Have a great evening everyone!

Cary from Kingsville, MO
 
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caltman

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Well, not hearing any helpful support I went ahead and bought a skimmer... went middle of the road at $160, and bought an adjustable return pump with a modern controller. I have been working on the plumbing to make all this happen, and when my fuge kit gets here and gets assembled and dried, I should be ready.

The tank is also beginning to clear up and although I have not done any tests yet, I am confident now that I am on the right track. In the coming weeks as I continue to cycle the tank before adding any livestock, I will add some more rock to complete my initial presentation.

I still have questions about preventing syphoning on the return pump side and several other things, but I will continue to research on my own until I figure it out. I will use this forum mostly as a journal to document my process as I continue this build. Thank you in advance to any of you who wish to comment.
 

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I would suggest getting more rock before your tank becomes cycled, as in the long run more rock means more stability. Also you won't need to use your skimmer until the tank is done cycling, so that the proper spikes in ammonia, nitrite, and then nitrate can occur. Also what type of skimmer did you end up getting? Progress is looking good so far as for a newbie you are well educated with your steps going forward!
 
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I would suggest getting more rock before your tank becomes cycled, as in the long run more rock means more stability. Also you won't need to use your skimmer until the tank is done cycling, so that the proper spikes in ammonia, nitrite, and then nitrate can occur. Also what type of skimmer did you end up getting? Progress is looking good so far as for a newbie you are well educated with your steps going forward!
Hi @riveradaniel! Thanks for the response. I got the 65g Coralife Super Skimmer, arriving tomorrow. I was all gung ho on installing it right away on the side of the tank, even before my refugium was ready to go, but now that the water is clearing from this initial bloom, I am much less inclined to make that move just yet. Since almost everyone here knows more than me about this hobby at this point, I will defer to your advice and wait till I am done cycling to get the skimmer going.

I did invest in 60 lbs of living sand, so that has to help a lot in building in the bacteria. I have also added water conditioner and some extra bacteria... again, not really knowing what I am doing and going from reading the bottle labels. More rock is definitely my next step. I was surprised how expensive new living or live rock is, and I will be making a trip back to Petco probably, unless I can find or be advised of a cheaper and better source online. I also know that I need to get even more rock and some of the micropore stuff for my refugium too, and have been preparing myself for that outlay in cash too.

So far, I know just enough to be dangerous, and apparently not enough yet that a lot of the experts are ready and willing to advise me here in this thread. I will keep learning however, and I am a fast study... but it would be nice to be able to head off some disasters before they happen, even though I would probably learn more from having the bad experience and then learning how to deal with it. I guess I am at the point now where I need to learn to do some testing, so I can actually see what the tank is doing. I am assuming that if I do a test today, after this initial bloom has calmed down, that I will be having an ammonia spike. I will be learning a lot over this next few weeks, and it is probably a good thing that it takes a while to cycle a tank for the first few times... I am too dumb at this point to be allowed to actually have fish in my tank so it is best for everyone right now that both me and my tank cycle for a bit.
 

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Hi @riveradaniel! Thanks for the response. I got the 65g Coralife Super Skimmer, arriving tomorrow. I was all gung ho on installing it right away on the side of the tank, even before my refugium was ready to go, but now that the water is clearing from this initial bloom, I am much less inclined to make that move just yet. Since almost everyone here knows more than me about this hobby at this point, I will defer to your advice and wait till I am done cycling to get the skimmer going.

I did invest in 60 lbs of living sand, so that has to help a lot in building in the bacteria. I have also added water conditioner and some extra bacteria... again, not really knowing what I am doing and going from reading the bottle labels. More rock is definitely my next step. I was surprised how expensive new living or live rock is, and I will be making a trip back to Petco probably, unless I can find or be advised of a cheaper and better source online. I also know that I need to get even more rock and some of the micropore stuff for my refugium too, and have been preparing myself for that outlay in cash too.

So far, I know just enough to be dangerous, and apparently not enough yet that a lot of the experts are ready and willing to advise me here in this thread. I will keep learning however, and I am a fast study... but it would be nice to be able to head off some disasters before they happen, even though I would probably learn more from having the bad experience and then learning how to deal with it. I guess I am at the point now where I need to learn to do some testing, so I can actually see what the tank is doing. I am assuming that if I do a test today, after this initial bloom has calmed down, that I will be having an ammonia spike. I will be learning a lot over this next few weeks, and it is probably a good thing that it takes a while to cycle a tank for the first few times... I am too dumb at this point to be allowed to actually have fish in my tank so it is best for everyone right now that both me and my tank cycle for a bit.
I don't have any advice on specific live rock, but I do know that Petco sells rock right from the inside of their tanks, and that is something I would advise against. I think in general Petco's are known to have ich very often, and you don't want the chance of having that dormant in your tank, even if it could go away by the time you get fish. But give it time, and don't rush introducing fish. It will be best to make sure your tank is completely cycled, let your skimmer and refugium run for week or so to get everything in line and ready to go.
 
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caltman

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I don't have any advice on specific live rock, but I do know that Petco sells rock right from the inside of their tanks, and that is something I would advise against. I think in general Petco's are known to have ich very often, and you don't want the chance of having that dormant in your tank, even if it could go away by the time you get fish. But give it time, and don't rush introducing fish. It will be best to make sure your tank is completely cycled, let your skimmer and refugium run for week or so to get everything in line and ready to go.
Thank you for that good advice. Petco has been removed from my list. I just purchased some more medium and small rock from a link from this forum.
I have also just completed my first ammonia test. It wasn't as hard as I imagined. As expected, I have elevated levels... 1.5 ppm. I will test again tomorrow around this time and see what happens. Baby steps.
 
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I just did my second ammonia test, and it is indeed quite a bit lower than yesterday... maybe .2 or so... more yellow than green. I believe that my tank is indeed cycling.

I assembled my refugium today... It will need to dry for a few days, but it won't be long now. Return pump and the skimmer showed up today too. I love it when a plan comes together!

20210328_192616.jpg
 
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Proof of concept day.

Before I get started, Welcome home to all of you Viet Nam vets here on your special veterans day. Thank you for your service.

So today, trying not to be a dummy, I tested my DIY PVC spillover, in the bathtub, instead of with salt water or overflowing my tank. Baby steps.

So I put my new AQ-006 pump to work filling a bucket with my very hopeful concoction trying to keep up. Would I get overflow?

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Complete and total fail! Even on its lowest wave setting, the spillover could not keep up. I am glad I tested! I also learned that I have a very powerful pump sitting here, and it is their smallest one! Egads, I sure have a lot to learn.

Now I am looking for an affordable commercial spillover. Have I had fun trying this? Certainly! Am I glad I tried DIY before spending real money? I live in the Show-Me state... of course I had to try it!

Have a nice evening everyone!
 

Sebastiancrab

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Hi there! Welcome to the gang. I too have a 40 breeder with a 20 gal sump that I just recently upgraded to. One thing I noticed was that you have a hydrometer. I too started out with one and quickly found out they are not reliable. I suggest you go ahead and purchase a refractometer. You will be glad you did.

On the return pump siphon possibility, I drilled a hole in the top of my loclink and keep it and the return outlet near the top of the water. This way if the pump stops, it will keep the siphon from continuing. It you test it you can check.
 
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Sebastiancrab

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On your cycling, you mention about having no food in the water. You do want to put at least a pinch of flake fish food in your tank once a day while you are cycling. This gives the bacteria something to get going on. I waited a couple of weeks and then tested. When I thought all was fine, I took a water sample to my LFS for a double check.
 
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Hi there! Welcome to the gang. I too have a 40 breeder with a 20 gal sump that I just recently upgraded to. One thing I noticed was that you have a hydrometer. I too started out with one and quickly found out they are not reliable. I suggest you go ahead and purchase a refractometer. You will be glad you did.

On the return pump syphon possibility, I drilled a hole in the top of my loclink and keep it and the return outlet near the top of the water. This way if the pump stops, it will keep the siphon from continuing. It you test it you can check.
Hi Elaine! I have the refractometer on my list... the are not very expensive, and this stupid hang on the side thing is constantly reading low and I was not at all willing to trust what it says... but I figured I had a little time yet as I am still cycling, to get that locked in. I am close after mixing the water carefully, I would think... at least close enough to cycle the rocks and the sand?

I have my eyes on a couple of 1000 gph hang on the tank overflows on ebay... its only another $100. lol I am not even going to contemplate drilling a bulkhead in this tank... I would break it for sure.

Further reading showed me the trick of drilling the air hole just below the water line on the return, so that siphoning will stop. I wish all the problems were solved that easily!

Thanks for jumping in and making me feel more welcome!
 
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On your cycling, you mention about having no food in the water. You do want to put at least a pinch of flake fish food in your tank once a day while you are cycling. This gives the bacteria something to get going on. I waited a couple of weeks and then tested. When I thought all was fine, I took a water sample to my LFS for a double check.
Thank you... I thought that came later. I have not even bought food yet... I will correct that asap. There is a little known LFS here that seems to have some respect... not like the LFS in the heart of my little city that no one recommends. This will give me an excuse to go out and find this little exclusive store tomorrow after work.
 

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Hi there! I would go ahead and get your tank drilled. If you ask around, perhaps local reefers can point out someone, it is best to go that route. Over the rim overflows are the most dangerous for flooding. If you look at my build thread (click the badge on my profile) you can see what I did. Bean animal is the most quiet and secure. Several companies sell them. Go with 3/4 inch PVC pipe. I did that wrong to start with. I used Seachem Stability for my bacteria starter. Petsmart has it and it is inexpensive. Once you get your water settled down, you can get going. Email me directly if I can help in any way. But know that I am a newbie too!

Check out Bulk Reef Supply on YouTube. They have tons of videos on how to do everything.
 
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Lots of things have been going on since my last posting. First, as I slowly continued to fill my tank, I realized that there was a definite lean on the table built to hold the 40B. The more I pondered it, the more it became an unacceptable problem.

So I scrambled, looking for a holding barrel to put my 35 gallons of water and then drained the tank, putting most of my living sand in one 5 gallon bucket and my rocks in another, trying to keep them alive.
It took several days, but I rebuilt a stronger table, custom designed to fit my slanted living room while still holding the tank level.

Before reading the last posting, I had already purchased an $80 overflow, so I will save drilling the tank for another day. After getting the water, sand and rocks back in the tank, I needed to see a proof of concept run before getting started for real, and I wanted to see my overflow, refugium, return pump, skimmer and all the associated plumbing, work... to show me that I wasn't totally screwing up.

A couple of days later, I got an ugly case of brown algae growing on the surface of my sand, rocks and even one powerhead. Deciding to stop this in its tracks before I really get started, I applied H2O2 to the water to sterilize the tank.

Now I need to dismantle things one more time, and fix the error I made when assembling my refugium so that the fuge chamber doesn't leak on the sides, fix a vacuum problem in my overflow return with one carefully placed air hole, and drill a hole on the water return line just below the water line to stop siphoning if the power goes out. All this and one little annoying drip will be dealt with over the next couple of days.

It will take a few days to cure the silicone that I will be applying to the refugium and to get the plumbing into leakproof status... but I am getting close and having fun working out all the problems as I run into them. Pretty soon, I will be ready to start cycling the tank, this time for real.
 

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