Clownfish diseased?

[vissen319]

Hi all,

I purchased a pair of juv clownfish from my LFS about 1.5 weeks ago. They were doing fine, feeding well and moving well. We noticed some white poop on the smaller one, and we treated it with prazipro.

So far they are doing well except that yesterday, I noticed some spots on their fins (marked in red). I also attached a video of them. I read that it could be due to stress.

Is my diagnosis correct?

Is there anything else that I can do to help? I have nothing else in my tank except for a peppermint shrimp and brittle star fish somewhere.

Thank you for your help.

 

[fishguy242]

hi,lets get some help, @Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is a lymphocystis infection which appears on the infected fish as one or more white or beige colored pebble or wart-like nodules most commonly seen on the fins or skin.
The Lymphocystis nodules are clustered groups of greatly enlarged, infected cells known as fibroblasts, which are part of the connective tissues in the fish.
As this is viral, your best recourse is to isolate them, treat with formalin based medication and provide healthy diet adding selcon vitamins to the foods

 

[vissen319]

Thank you all! I tried to get selcon and a formalin-based med but my LFS recommended that I get kanaplex and reef plus.

Is that ok?

 

[javisaman]

honestly, they look more like a parasitic isopod, though not the typical kind. The fact that both clowns have them and the lesions look almost regular in shape. I'm likely wrong.

 

[vetteguy53081]

honestly, they look more like a parasitic isopod, though not the typical kind. The fact that both clowns have them and the lesions look almost regular in shape. I'm likely wrong.

The closest would be a munnid in which there is an absence of antennae and front legs.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you all! I tried to get selcon and a formalin-based med but my LFS recommended that I get kanaplex and reef plus.

Is that ok?

Reef Plus is a full spectrum reef supplement containing trace elements, vitamins, and amino acids intended to have an impact on the growth of corals. Not a fish vitamin supplement. KanaPlex is a kanamycin based medication that treats fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemia). It is absorbed by fish for treating internal infections in situations where food is refused.
Kanaplex may work . Generally focus is added with it to keep the medication bonded to food.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That is not Lymphocystis. I would say it looks like a parasitic copepod, but I can't rule out isopods. You will never see these on captive raised fish unless your tank is already infected with them. These clowns could be wild caught ocellaris - but if they are, then you may have to contend with Brooklynella as well at some point (sigh).

In 55+ years of keeping clownfish, I have never seen one infected with crustacean parasites, so I really don't know what to make of it. If you can get a clearer picture, I might be able to give you a better ID.

Here is an excerpt from my upcoming book about these:

Parasitic Crustaceans (Copepods, Isopods, and Sea Lice)

Cause
This disease problem is caused by a variety of very small crustaceans that can parasitize fish. Some are obligate parasites with specific host species, while others are generalists and can live separate from a fish and only return periodically in order to feed on the fish’s skin. The different species have a wide variety of body shapes, but because they are all arthropods, they always have jointed legs and segmented body parts.

Non-parasitic amphipods, copepods, and isopods are also common cryptic inhabitants of aquariums. Seen as little white specks moving about the aquarium glass, these creatures (often called “pods” by aquarists) are harmless but sometimes indicate that the primary inhabitants (the fish) are being overfed.

“Pod” characteristics

Amphipods tend to be flattened side to side and have two different types of legs. None of these are parasitic.

Copepods are flattened top to bottom, and non-parasitic ones often have large antennae. In parasitic species, the antennae are replaced with grasping hooks. So, if you see a large number of copepods, all with large antennae and not attached to a fish, they aren’t parasitic (though the parasitic species are free-swimming during the copepodite stage).

Isopods tend to have legs that are all the same (“iso” means “same,” and “pod” means “foot”). They are also either cylindrical or flattened top to bottom. The cirolanid isopods look a bit like pill bugs that you can find in your garden, but they are known parasites of fish.

Symptoms
Symptoms of copepod infestation can be a bit too general and vague for most aquarists to discern visually. The fish may flash (scratch), act nervous, or breathe heavily. In severe infestations, the fish’s skin will develop blood spots and the fins may become tattered.

In older aquariums that have a high bio-load (large number of fish), an aggressive type of copepod may take up residence. These creatures hide in the gravel and under rocks during the day and swim up into the water column at night to feed on the fish’s skin. Fish in aquariums with an infestation of this type of copepod will be seen hovering near the surface, as far away from the substrate as possible. They may also show other signs of stress, such as pale coloration, jerking movements, and rapid breathing.

The purple firefish, Nemateleotris magnifica has a copepod parasite specific to that species – Serpentisaccus magnificae. Described by George Blasiola in 1979, this parasite is seen on newly imported firefish. The body of the parasite is buried in the flank of the fish, behind the gills, either on one or both sides. When the female copepod develops its egg sacs, these emerge from the fish’s skin as tiny coiled strands. Treatment should not be attempted for this parasite, as the adults are buried too deeply into the body of the fish for physical removal to be done safely, and no known chemotherapeutic will eliminate internal crustacean parasites without also harming the host fish. This copepod is thought to have indirect development with a series of planktonic larval stages, so there is no real concern of the eggs hatching and then fully developing and causing reinfection of the host.

Diagnosis
Some crustacean parasites, including many of the isopods, are easily seen with the naked eye. In other instances, the female’s twin egg sacs can be seen emerging from under the fish’s skin. Branchiurans (Argulus) can sometimes be seen by observant aquarists, but as they are clear, their 10 mm bodies don’t stand out very well. Freshwater aquarists may find these on wild-caught freshwater stingrays.

In other cases, such as with Ergasilus, the parasites are too small to be seen directly, so you need to look for secondary symptoms as mentioned above. A diagnostic dip will aid in the identification of these pests. The dip also serves as a temporary treatment, as it rids the fish of most of the parasites attached to it at that moment.

Treatment
The most frequently suggested treatment for crustacean parasites is the application of an organophosphate pesticide, such as Trichlorfon (Dylox or Metrifonate). These products are dangerous for aquarium use; toxic to the aquarist, and causing sensitivity reactions in many species of fish. Other treatments need to be considered first.

One way to deal with these parasites in the aquarium is through a series of dips—formalin at 166 ppm for 45 minutes or fresh water for 5 to 7 minutes. Two difficulties are seen with this method, however. First, returning the fish directly to the infected tank allows for rapid reinfection. Second, these parasites have pinching mouthparts that make them difficult to dislodge during a dip treatment.

One method used by public aquariums is to give the entire aquarium a high-dose (166 ppm) bath with formalin. After about 30 minutes, the tank is very quickly drained to 20% full. Previously mixed seawater is then added to the tank to refill it. This process exposes the fish to about 45 minutes of formalin above 150 ppm and then leaves a residual formalin dose in the tank of 33 ppm, which is generally tolerated as a constant bath by most fish.

Obviously, this cannot be done in aquariums where invertebrates are present, and it does require a substantial amount of salt water. Furthermore, a second treatment is often required. For reef aquariums, removing the fish to a treatment tank and allowing the main aquarium to lie fallow for six weeks is the best treatment.

 

[vissen319]

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. We have been monitoring both fish for a while. My guess is that the clownfish are captive bred given the 'cheap' price tag.

They seem to be doing fine. They are feeding fine. I did a 10% water change yesterday as a precautionary measure. I think it may some parasitic pods like you suggested. It is hard for me to distinguish the body shape exactly as the fish are moving all the time. They most likely came from the liverock that I put in about 2 weeks ago.

However, as of yesterday, the bigger clownfish had 2 on the tail fins and the smaller fish had one. Today, the bigger fish has only one and there is none on the smaller fish. They dropped them somehow.

What do you suggest is the safest way that I get rid of these parasite pods? I have a peppermint shrimp in my tank, a hidden brittle starfish (which I have not seen in a while) and probably that's about it. I could try and find some formalin-based meds but I dont think i can find formalin by itself around here. The LFS that I called do not carry it anymore.

 

[vissen319]

That is not Lymphocystis. I would say it looks like a parasitic copepod, but I can't rule out isopods. You will never see these on captive raised fish unless your tank is already infected with them. These clowns could be wild caught ocellaris - but if they are, then you may have to contend with Brooklynella as well at some point (sigh).

In 55+ years of keeping clownfish, I have never seen one infected with crustacean parasites, so I really don't know what to make of it. If you can get a clearer picture, I might be able to give you a better ID.

Here is an excerpt from my upcoming book about these:

Parasitic Crustaceans (Copepods, Isopods, and Sea Lice)

Cause
This disease problem is caused by a variety of very small crustaceans that can parasitize fish. Some are obligate parasites with specific host species, while others are generalists and can live separate from a fish and only return periodically in order to feed on the fish’s skin. The different species have a wide variety of body shapes, but because they are all arthropods, they always have jointed legs and segmented body parts.

Non-parasitic amphipods, copepods, and isopods are also common cryptic inhabitants of aquariums. Seen as little white specks moving about the aquarium glass, these creatures (often called “pods” by aquarists) are harmless but sometimes indicate that the primary inhabitants (the fish) are being overfed.

“Pod” characteristics

Amphipods tend to be flattened side to side and have two different types of legs. None of these are parasitic.

Copepods are flattened top to bottom, and non-parasitic ones often have large antennae. In parasitic species, the antennae are replaced with grasping hooks. So, if you see a large number of copepods, all with large antennae and not attached to a fish, they aren’t parasitic (though the parasitic species are free-swimming during the copepodite stage).

Isopods tend to have legs that are all the same (“iso” means “same,” and “pod” means “foot”). They are also either cylindrical or flattened top to bottom. The cirolanid isopods look a bit like pill bugs that you can find in your garden, but they are known parasites of fish.

Symptoms
Symptoms of copepod infestation can be a bit too general and vague for most aquarists to discern visually. The fish may flash (scratch), act nervous, or breathe heavily. In severe infestations, the fish’s skin will develop blood spots and the fins may become tattered.

In older aquariums that have a high bio-load (large number of fish), an aggressive type of copepod may take up residence. These creatures hide in the gravel and under rocks during the day and swim up into the water column at night to feed on the fish’s skin. Fish in aquariums with an infestation of this type of copepod will be seen hovering near the surface, as far away from the substrate as possible. They may also show other signs of stress, such as pale coloration, jerking movements, and rapid breathing.

The purple firefish, Nemateleotris magnifica has a copepod parasite specific to that species – Serpentisaccus magnificae. Described by George Blasiola in 1979, this parasite is seen on newly imported firefish. The body of the parasite is buried in the flank of the fish, behind the gills, either on one or both sides. When the female copepod develops its egg sacs, these emerge from the fish’s skin as tiny coiled strands. Treatment should not be attempted for this parasite, as the adults are buried too deeply into the body of the fish for physical removal to be done safely, and no known chemotherapeutic will eliminate internal crustacean parasites without also harming the host fish. This copepod is thought to have indirect development with a series of planktonic larval stages, so there is no real concern of the eggs hatching and then fully developing and causing reinfection of the host.

Diagnosis
Some crustacean parasites, including many of the isopods, are easily seen with the naked eye. In other instances, the female’s twin egg sacs can be seen emerging from under the fish’s skin. Branchiurans (Argulus) can sometimes be seen by observant aquarists, but as they are clear, their 10 mm bodies don’t stand out very well. Freshwater aquarists may find these on wild-caught freshwater stingrays.

In other cases, such as with Ergasilus, the parasites are too small to be seen directly, so you need to look for secondary symptoms as mentioned above. A diagnostic dip will aid in the identification of these pests. The dip also serves as a temporary treatment, as it rids the fish of most of the parasites attached to it at that moment.

Treatment
The most frequently suggested treatment for crustacean parasites is the application of an organophosphate pesticide, such as Trichlorfon (Dylox or Metrifonate). These products are dangerous for aquarium use; toxic to the aquarist, and causing sensitivity reactions in many species of fish. Other treatments need to be considered first.

One way to deal with these parasites in the aquarium is through a series of dips—formalin at 166 ppm for 45 minutes or fresh water for 5 to 7 minutes. Two difficulties are seen with this method, however. First, returning the fish directly to the infected tank allows for rapid reinfection. Second, these parasites have pinching mouthparts that make them difficult to dislodge during a dip treatment.

One method used by public aquariums is to give the entire aquarium a high-dose (166 ppm) bath with formalin. After about 30 minutes, the tank is very quickly drained to 20% full. Previously mixed seawater is then added to the tank to refill it. This process exposes the fish to about 45 minutes of formalin above 150 ppm and then leaves a residual formalin dose in the tank of 33 ppm, which is generally tolerated as a constant bath by most fish.

Obviously, this cannot be done in aquariums where invertebrates are present, and it does require a substantial amount of salt water. Furthermore, a second treatment is often required. For reef aquariums, removing the fish to a treatment tank and allowing the main aquarium to lie fallow for six weeks is the best treatment.

Thank you very much for your insights! It was very informative, and from our observations, it looks like parasitic pods.

 

[vissen319]

Reef Plus is a full spectrum reef supplement containing trace elements, vitamins, and amino acids intended to have an impact on the growth of corals. Not a fish vitamin supplement. KanaPlex is a kanamycin based medication that treats fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemia). It is absorbed by fish for treating internal infections in situations where food is refused.
Kanaplex may work . Generally focus is added with it to keep the medication bonded to food.

Thanks. Yeah I realized that I blindly bought the reefplus from the LFS following the LFS recommendaton. Well, I will keep it for next time since I intend to keep corals at some point. I have focus to blend the food.

I bought the selcon online!

 

[vissen319]

The closest would be a munnid in which there is an absence of antennae and front legs.

I cannot see antenna or legs at least with the naked eye

 

[vetteguy53081]

I cannot see antenna or legs at least with the naked eye

As thought- Munnid

 

[RobertTheNurse]

That is not Lymphocystis. I would say it looks like a parasitic copepod, but I can't rule out isopods. You will never see these on captive raised fish unless your tank is already infected with them. These clowns could be wild caught ocellaris - but if they are, then you may have to contend with Brooklynella as well at some point (sigh).

In 55+ years of keeping clownfish, I have never seen one infected with crustacean parasites, so I really don't know what to make of it. If you can get a clearer picture, I might be able to give you a better ID.

Here is an excerpt from my upcoming book about these:

Parasitic Crustaceans (Copepods, Isopods, and Sea Lice)

Cause
This disease problem is caused by a variety of very small crustaceans that can parasitize fish. Some are obligate parasites with specific host species, while others are generalists and can live separate from a fish and only return periodically in order to feed on the fish’s skin. The different species have a wide variety of body shapes, but because they are all arthropods, they always have jointed legs and segmented body parts.

Non-parasitic amphipods, copepods, and isopods are also common cryptic inhabitants of aquariums. Seen as little white specks moving about the aquarium glass, these creatures (often called “pods” by aquarists) are harmless but sometimes indicate that the primary inhabitants (the fish) are being overfed.

“Pod” characteristics

Amphipods tend to be flattened side to side and have two different types of legs. None of these are parasitic.

Copepods are flattened top to bottom, and non-parasitic ones often have large antennae. In parasitic species, the antennae are replaced with grasping hooks. So, if you see a large number of copepods, all with large antennae and not attached to a fish, they aren’t parasitic (though the parasitic species are free-swimming during the copepodite stage).

Isopods tend to have legs that are all the same (“iso” means “same,” and “pod” means “foot”). They are also either cylindrical or flattened top to bottom. The cirolanid isopods look a bit like pill bugs that you can find in your garden, but they are known parasites of fish.

Symptoms
Symptoms of copepod infestation can be a bit too general and vague for most aquarists to discern visually. The fish may flash (scratch), act nervous, or breathe heavily. In severe infestations, the fish’s skin will develop blood spots and the fins may become tattered.

In older aquariums that have a high bio-load (large number of fish), an aggressive type of copepod may take up residence. These creatures hide in the gravel and under rocks during the day and swim up into the water column at night to feed on the fish’s skin. Fish in aquariums with an infestation of this type of copepod will be seen hovering near the surface, as far away from the substrate as possible. They may also show other signs of stress, such as pale coloration, jerking movements, and rapid breathing.

The purple firefish, Nemateleotris magnifica has a copepod parasite specific to that species – Serpentisaccus magnificae. Described by George Blasiola in 1979, this parasite is seen on newly imported firefish. The body of the parasite is buried in the flank of the fish, behind the gills, either on one or both sides. When the female copepod develops its egg sacs, these emerge from the fish’s skin as tiny coiled strands. Treatment should not be attempted for this parasite, as the adults are buried too deeply into the body of the fish for physical removal to be done safely, and no known chemotherapeutic will eliminate internal crustacean parasites without also harming the host fish. This copepod is thought to have indirect development with a series of planktonic larval stages, so there is no real concern of the eggs hatching and then fully developing and causing reinfection of the host.

Diagnosis
Some crustacean parasites, including many of the isopods, are easily seen with the naked eye. In other instances, the female’s twin egg sacs can be seen emerging from under the fish’s skin. Branchiurans (Argulus) can sometimes be seen by observant aquarists, but as they are clear, their 10 mm bodies don’t stand out very well. Freshwater aquarists may find these on wild-caught freshwater stingrays.

In other cases, such as with Ergasilus, the parasites are too small to be seen directly, so you need to look for secondary symptoms as mentioned above. A diagnostic dip will aid in the identification of these pests. The dip also serves as a temporary treatment, as it rids the fish of most of the parasites attached to it at that moment.

Treatment
The most frequently suggested treatment for crustacean parasites is the application of an organophosphate pesticide, such as Trichlorfon (Dylox or Metrifonate). These products are dangerous for aquarium use; toxic to the aquarist, and causing sensitivity reactions in many species of fish. Other treatments need to be considered first.

One way to deal with these parasites in the aquarium is through a series of dips—formalin at 166 ppm for 45 minutes or fresh water for 5 to 7 minutes. Two difficulties are seen with this method, however. First, returning the fish directly to the infected tank allows for rapid reinfection. Second, these parasites have pinching mouthparts that make them difficult to dislodge during a dip treatment.

One method used by public aquariums is to give the entire aquarium a high-dose (166 ppm) bath with formalin. After about 30 minutes, the tank is very quickly drained to 20% full. Previously mixed seawater is then added to the tank to refill it. This process exposes the fish to about 45 minutes of formalin above 150 ppm and then leaves a residual formalin dose in the tank of 33 ppm, which is generally tolerated as a constant bath by most fish.

Obviously, this cannot be done in aquariums where invertebrates are present, and it does require a substantial amount of salt water. Furthermore, a second treatment is often required. For reef aquariums, removing the fish to a treatment tank and allowing the main aquarium to lie fallow for six weeks is the best treatment.

Oooo i like books!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ha! I wish book publishers liked aquarium books! TFH, the publisher who produced most of my books hasn't published anything new in over two years. There are literally no other Aquarium publishers out there, the other two that published my books have gone out of business. I'll end up self-publishing this, but I'll need to wait until I retire due to the amount of time that will take to market it. Meanwhile, I'll keep posting excerpts of it here on R2R, as articles, or as posts....at the rate I'm going, the whole book will end up here in some form or another (grin).

Jay

 

[RobertTheNurse]

Ha! I wish book publishers liked aquarium books! TFH, the publisher who produced most of my books hasn't published anything new in over two years. There are literally no other Aquarium publishers out there, the other two that published my books have gone out of business. I'll end up self-publishing this, but I'll need to wait until I retire due to the amount of time that will take to market it. Meanwhile, I'll keep posting excerpts of it here on R2R, as articles, or as posts....at the rate I'm going, the whole book will end up here in some form or another (grin).

Jay

Thats actually the first thing I did before getting into this hobby. There isn't much "uo-to-date" books on the subject! I'd be first in line sir

 

[vissen319]

As thought- Munnid

We trapped the fish in the water with a net and after a few sec of wiggling, it was gone! that was a stubborn one.

 

[Frankie Soon]

The purple firefish, Nemateleotris magnifica has a copepod parasite specific to that species – Serpentisaccus magnificae. Described by George Blasiola in 1979, this parasite is seen on newly imported firefish. The body of the parasite is buried in the flank of the fish, behind the gills, either on one or both sides. When the female copepod develops its egg sacs, these emerge from the fish’s skin as tiny coiled strands. Treatment should not be attempted for this parasite, as the adults are buried too deeply into the body of the fish for physical removal to be done safely, and no known chemotherapeutic will eliminate internal crustacean parasites without also harming the host fish. This copepod is thought to have indirect development with a series of planktonic larval stages, so there is no real concern of the eggs hatching and then fully developing and causing reinfection of the host.

This caught my attention as I actually experienced purple firefish with parasites (isopods) which attached to the gills of the fish. I found them when I did a thorough examination on the fish as it was breathing rapidly for the next few days upon introduction into the quarantine tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This caught my attention as I actually experienced purple firefish with parasites (isopods) which attached to the gills of the fish. I found them when I did a thorough examination on the fish as it was breathing rapidly for the next few days upon introduction into the quarantine tank.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Did you see isopods or copepods? The species affecting purple firefish is a copepod. The egg masses are only produced by the adult female copepod, so males and juvenile females are present on the fish, just not visible without a microscope.

Jay

 

[Frankie Soon]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Did you see isopods or copepods? The species affecting purple firefish is a copepod. The egg masses are only produced by the adult female copepod, so males and juvenile females are present on the fish, just not visible without a microscope.

Jay

I saw isopods. Previously there was a release of mass baby isopods into the water and they were free swimming. This led me to perform a physical examination inside the gill later. Upon checking, there were 2 isopods found. The female was much bigger than the male.