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Clownfish probably a goner ???

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Jay Hemdal

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So it’s day 20 or so with female not eating. She doesn’t host anemone anymore. Prazipro didn’t help. At night she sleeps up in corner of tank.

is it wrong to go ahead and euthanize ? I can’t believe she’s still alive honestly

here’s a link to her behavior.

I think it is appropriate to euthanize the fish. After that amount of time wiht no food, even if it suddenly began feeding again, its liver is likely damaged. Do you have a method in mind? Below is a write up I did on the topic:

Jay


When is euthanasia warranted?

Euthanasia should be considered for a fish if 1) it has a chronic, untreatable disease (such as tumors, blindness, or starvation) or 2) the fish is “moribund” due to severe injury or illness.



In some cases, euthanasia is considered necessary for population management reasons. For the sake of argument, let’s say that a population of an endangered species is being managed for conservation purposes, and there is an issue where if the male/female ratio becomes skewed, and increased numbers of one sex (often the males) will disrupt the integrity of the whole population. In that case, it may be best to euthanize the surplus males in order to better preserve the genetic diversity of the entire population.



The American Veterinary Medical Association have their 2020 euthanasia guidelines posted online at https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf





Preferred methods for euthanasia



MS-222


Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.



Clove oil (eugenol)

One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.



Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:



1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.



2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.



3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.



4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.



Other methods

A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need some other tools to use, so the methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:



Ethanol

Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.



Decapitation/pithing

Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.



Freezing

Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.



An option of last resort

The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

So how can aquarists best utilize the information presented here? First, it is obvious that unless you constantly monitor the mortality rates of the animals under your care, you have no way of knowing if your husbandry skills are improving. Second, this information should serve to reinforce the idea that taking animals from the wild and holding them in captivity carries with it an important responsibility.

On a personal note, while much of what I’ve written here is rather dry and clinical, please do not misconstrue and think that I hold little empathy for aquarium animals. While it is true that I avoid anthropomorphizing any of the animals in my charge, (excepting house pets) I do feel a deep responsibility for all of them. I am of course saddened when I lose a fish, but that sadness is not related to the cost or rarity of the animal, or my personal feelings about it, but rather the degree to which I know that I might have been able to offer it better husbandry. Mistakes can happen, and losses due to error make one feel the worse
 

Sharkbait19

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I think it is appropriate to euthanize the fish. After that amount of time wiht no food, even if it suddenly began feeding again, its liver is likely damaged. Do you have a method in mind? Below is a write up I did on the topic:

Jay


When is euthanasia warranted?

Euthanasia should be considered for a fish if 1) it has a chronic, untreatable disease (such as tumors, blindness, or starvation) or 2) the fish is “moribund” due to severe injury or illness.



In some cases, euthanasia is considered necessary for population management reasons. For the sake of argument, let’s say that a population of an endangered species is being managed for conservation purposes, and there is an issue where if the male/female ratio becomes skewed, and increased numbers of one sex (often the males) will disrupt the integrity of the whole population. In that case, it may be best to euthanize the surplus males in order to better preserve the genetic diversity of the entire population.



The American Veterinary Medical Association have their 2020 euthanasia guidelines posted online at https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf





Preferred methods for euthanasia



MS-222


Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.



Clove oil (eugenol)

One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.



Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:



1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.



2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.



3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.



4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.



Other methods

A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need some other tools to use, so the methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:



Ethanol

Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.



Decapitation/pithing

Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.



Freezing

Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.



An option of last resort

The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

So how can aquarists best utilize the information presented here? First, it is obvious that unless you constantly monitor the mortality rates of the animals under your care, you have no way of knowing if your husbandry skills are improving. Second, this information should serve to reinforce the idea that taking animals from the wild and holding them in captivity carries with it an important responsibility.

On a personal note, while much of what I’ve written here is rather dry and clinical, please do not misconstrue and think that I hold little empathy for aquarium animals. While it is true that I avoid anthropomorphizing any of the animals in my charge, (excepting house pets) I do feel a deep responsibility for all of them. I am of course saddened when I lose a fish, but that sadness is not related to the cost or rarity of the animal, or my personal feelings about it, but rather the degree to which I know that I might have been able to offer it better husbandry. Mistakes can happen, and losses due to error make one feel the worse
Once I euthanized a tiger barb who was suffering internal worms, was beat up, blinded, and had ich. I also once euthanized a goldfish with dropsy. Personally though, I feel that as long as the fish is still swimming with control, it has a chance.
 

Sharkbait19

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So it’s day 20 or so with female not eating. She doesn’t host anemone anymore. Prazipro didn’t help. At night she sleeps up in corner of tank.

is it wrong to go ahead and euthanize ? I can’t believe she’s still alive honestly

here’s a link to her behavior.

If she’s still swimming, she has a chance. My clown Nemo did that for a week before death. If it’s not eating you can assume it’s some kind of parasite.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Once I euthanized a tiger barb who was suffering internal worms, was beat up, blinded, and had ich. I also once euthanized a goldfish with dropsy. Personally though, I feel that as long as the fish is still swimming with control, it has a chance.
This clown has evidently gone 3 weeks without food. It has utilized its liver for energy and its gallbladder has probably quadrupled in size. There are some fish that can go long periods of not eating (moray eels in particular) but small fish like this really can't go more than two weeks before permanent liver changes occur.

Jay
 
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Desperado

Desperado

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This clown has evidently gone 3 weeks without food. It has utilized its liver for energy and its gallbladder has probably quadrupled in size. There are some fish that can go long periods of not eating (moray eels in particular) but small fish like this really can't go more than two weeks before permanent liver changes occur.

Jay
Thanks for the help. She’s gone. RIP

I had some clove oil.

I don’t know why when certain fish pass it doesn’t bother me at all and others really get to me. This one did. Maybe it’s the personality or the fact she had a mate and laid eggs every few months and now I just have the male.
Wish she could have passed naturally.
 

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