Confused - Burnt Acro Tips - SPS Help

[sanzz18]

So these ones are actually doing good and encrusting the plug. Purple plasma and oregon blue tort.


Here are pics of my tiger’s blood and pinky the bear with burn tips. You can see the brown algae on them to know it is not new growth.


Tiny piece of green slimer that slowly lost its color and browned out, looks to be almost a go


These two digis were once one piece that broke off an encrusted plug. Not sure what is happening to them.

 

[sanzz18]

Can you post a picture? Maybe a dumb question but if it's your first try with acros, are you sure the burnt tips aren't just growth?

You said polyp extension isn't what it used to be. Any suspect fish that could be nipping?

Pictures above. Never seen any fish eye or nip at any coral.

 

[sanzz18]

Updated Parameters as of last night:

Specific gravity - 1.026
Temp - 78
Ph 7.9-8.18
Alk - 8.2 (lowering slowly)
Calcium - 440
Magnesium - 1320
Nitrate - 17.4
Phosphate 0.13

Anymore insight on my issue, I would be greatly appreciated. I also lowered my radions from 65% to 55% while lowering my alk to hopefully have them make a recovery.

 

[sculpin01]

Yeah so those are dinoflagellates on the burnt tips. Scrape some of the brown algae off and look at it under a microscope. If you see whirling brown lenticular cells spinning like tops, you have Ostreopsis. Ostreopsis makes a variety of toxins including palytoxin and is a known coral killer. Treatment is 2 weeks of UV at night and run copious activated carbon to remove the toxins. Also, stop any amino dosing as it fuels the outbreak.

 

[sculpin01]

I had a massive Ostreopsis outbreak a year ago (I was dosing a lot of amino acids). My tank water took on a brownish tint and corals started dying throughout:

 

[sculpin01]

A nice PC Rainbow colony:

 

[sanzz18]

Yeah so those are dinoflagellates on the burnt tips. Scrape some of the brown algae off and look at it under a microscope. If you see whirling brown lenticular cells spinning like tops, you have Ostreopsis. Ostreopsis makes a variety of toxins including palytoxin and is a known coral killer. Treatment is 2 weeks of UV at night and run copious activated carbon to remove the toxins. Also, stop any amino dosing as it fuels the outbreak.

I actually had dinos at the 3-4 month mark of my tank that I beat mostly with a UV sterilizer (still currently running).

I think my main question isn’t as much how do I save the corals affected right now, but how do I prevent this from happening with further additions so I can be successful with SPS.

 

[sculpin01]

How big a UV is it? I suspect you have controlled but not eliminated your infection. In the short term, microscopic examination and running carbon are good first steps.

The "Mack's reef...Dinoflagellates support group! ." group on Facebook is extremely helpful in regards to treating these problems.

 

[sculpin01]

Per the Dino Group for UV:

"1w per 3gal minimal ..with flow 1-3× tanks total"

 

[sanzz18]

How big a UV is it? I suspect you have controlled but not eliminated your infection. In the short term, microscopic examination and running carbon are good first steps.

The "Mack's reef...Dinoflagellates support group! ." group on Facebook is extremely helpful in regards to treating these problems.

That is the group I used to solve the problem. I don’t have an infestation of dinos right now. That is long gone. From what I understand you do not eliminate dinos cause they will always be in your tank but there is a biological equilibrium.

I just feel when people have burnt tips and no active dino infestation in their tank, treating for dinos is not the cure. I could be wrong though, I am definitely no expert reefer.

 

[sanzz18]

Per the Dino Group for UV:

"1w per 3gal minimal ..with flow 1-3× tanks total"

Yeah I have it running at 2x my water volume.

 

[sculpin01]

There are a lot of species of dinoflagellates. Most dinoflagellates are unsightly surface films on your sand and rocks. Others form literal red tides in your tank. You may have gotten rid of one type but now have another.

Pretty sure if you scrape some of that brown algae onto a slide and look at it under a microscope, you will see that you do have Ostreopsis, but I could be wrong.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Were all of these burnt acros from the same hobbyists tank when you purchased them? Could very well be that he has an emerging dino problem and moving the corals to your tank gave the ones attached to the frag plugs an excess of some trace element that allows them to propagate well.

Just seems like too much of a coincidence that all of the acros with "burnt" tips appear to have the dino brown slime right where they are burnt.

Might want to up your nutrients and replace your UV bulb as a precaution (if it's had more than 6 months of runtime)

 

[sanzz18]

There are a lot of species of dinoflagellates. Most dinoflagellates are unsightly surface films on your sand and rocks. Others form literal red tides in your tank. You may have gotten rid of one type but now have another.

Pretty sure if you scrape some of that brown algae onto a slide and look at it under a microscope, you will see that you do have Ostreopsis, but I could be wrong.

I just don’t understand why this is post is becoming a dinos post. Please don’t take it as I am not appreciating your input, I definitely am. But, I ready through so many other “burnt tips” threads on here where the tips look all the same with brown algae growing on them.

Everyone’s question when people don’t post pics and make threads about burnt tips are, “how do you know they are burnt tips? Do they have brown algae growing on them?”. Which is what I have.

I also know I had ostreopsis because I bought a microscope to identify it when I had my dino outbreak.

 

[sanzz18]

Were all of these burnt acros from the same hobbyists tank when you purchased them? Could very well be that he has an emerging dino problem and moving the corals to your tank gave the ones attached to the frag plugs an excess of some trace element that allows them to propagate well.

Just seems like too much of a coincidence that all of the acros with "burnt" tips appear to have the dino brown slime right where they are burnt.

Might want to up your nutrients and replace your UV bulb as a precaution (if it's had more than 6 months of runtime)

No the digi is from somewhere else. The green slimer was a piece that basically broke up so it was so small maybe it didnt have a chance. The tigers blood, pinky the bear (the most brown pic), orgeon tort, purple plasma and the green slimer are from one person; but not all are doing bad.

I thought the brown algae hanging in tips is hallmark of burnt tips.

My bulb I will definitely replace as it has been more than 6 months.

My nutrients are already at 17 and 0.13, I don’t think I want to intentionally raise them.

 

[ocncheffy]

I had this exact same problem with almost identical nutrients as you, and was getting burnt tips on large healthy colonies I've had for awhile. What fixed it for me was to stop running any sort of phosphate reduction media. My phosphates are now at .3, and the SPS look better than ever. Nitrates are sitting at 15ppm, dosing daily to keep it above 10.

I also lowered my dual XR15 G4's to 75% instead of 90% with the SPS AB+ spectrum. I don't think the light resolved anything, so I'm slowly turning it back up to reach adequate PAR numbers. I believe any sort of phosphate reduction media was doing much more harm then good. Are you running any GFO or lanthium?

 

[SamMule]

I agree with above. If you're using any media or additives to remove PO4, Stop.
Worked for me. Easy to try and definitely won't hurt your system.

 

[jda]

True burnt tips come from 2 places. First, super low residual no3 and po4 which really makes calcification take off while also not providing enough building blocks for organic tissue to grow - the coral literally grows a skeleton too fast for the tissue to keep up. This has not been much of an issue since people stopped trying to do ZEOVit like carbon dosing to lower no3 below .1 and po4 below .005. Second, it is lighting based - easy way to solve this is to run the T5s more and turn the LEDs down. This could be too harsh of LED output (acclimation, lenses, older white diodes were known for burning tips, but nobody uses those anymore that I know of) or just on too high. 90% from a radion without using all channels and having the lights up high has done bad things in the past. If it was the lights, it could be weeks before any changes might be seen - like how it takes 100 miles to turn around an oil tanker. I would run the T5s to carry the load and cut the radions back to 50%.

Your residual building blocks are fine - anything above a trace is fine unless you want to poison dinos or the like. If you are worried about something in the water, then do a few larger water changes - it is the ultimate reset button. Otherwise, I would focus on the lights.

 

[sanzz18]

I had this exact same problem with almost identical nutrients as you, and was getting burnt tips on large healthy colonies I've had for awhile. What fixed it for me was to stop running any sort of phosphate reduction media. My phosphates are now at .3, and the SPS look better than ever. Nitrates are sitting at 15ppm, dosing daily to keep it above 10.

I also lowered my dual XR15 G4's to 75% instead of 90% with the SPS AB+ spectrum. I don't think the light resolved anything, so I'm slowly turning it back up to reach adequate PAR numbers. I believe any sort of phosphate reduction media was doing much more harm then good. Are you running any GFO or lanthium?

I do use GFO but 1/3-1/3 the recommended amount. I honestly have not changed it in a 1 1/2 to 2 months. I turned it off a couple nights ago to see what happens.

It is insane to think that using 65% of my led power is hurting SPS when other grow insane corals at 90-100% or lower then what I am currently using. Drives me crazy lol.

I agree with above. If you're using any media or additives to remove PO4, Stop.
Worked for me. Easy to try and definitely won't hurt your system.

Yeah, I stopped it to see what happens.

True burnt tips come from 2 places. First, super low residual no3 and po4 which really makes calcification take off while also not providing enough building blocks for organic tissue to grow - the coral literally grows a skeleton too fast for the tissue to keep up. This has not been much of an issue since people stopped trying to do ZEOVit like carbon dosing to lower no3 below .1 and po4 below .005. Second, it is lighting based - easy way to solve this is to run the T5s more and turn the LEDs down. This could be too harsh of LED output (acclimation, lenses, older white diodes were known for burning tips, but nobody uses those anymore that I know of) or just on too high. 90% from a radion without using all channels and having the lights up high has done bad things in the past. If it was the lights, it could be weeks before any changes might be seen - like how it takes 100 miles to turn around an oil tanker. I would run the T5s to carry the load and cut the radions back to 50%.

Your residual building blocks are fine - anything above a trace is fine unless you want to poison dinos or the like. If you are worried about something in the water, then do a few larger water changes - it is the ultimate reset button. Otherwise, I would focus on the lights.

You really think it can be my lights when the local reefer I got most of my acro frags from has the same exact setup, approximate par levels, etc?

It is driving me crazy because I am at 1 1/2 years since tank startup. I am no trying to rush to get colonies formed, I just want the frags to survive and do well enough to start encrusting and not die off.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I do use GFO but 1/3-1/3 the recommended amount. I honestly have not changed it in a 1 1/2 to 2 months. I turned it off a couple nights ago to see what happens.

It is insane to think that using 65% of my led power is hurting SPS when other grow insane corals at 90-100% or lower then what I am currently using. Drives me crazy lol.



Yeah, I stopped it to see what happens.



You really think it can be my lights when the local reefer I got most of my acro frags from has the same exact setup, approximate par levels, etc?

It is driving me crazy because I am at 1 1/2 years since tank startup. I am no trying to rush to get colonies formed, I just want the frags to survive and do well enough to start encrusting and not die off.

It’s not your lights
Gfo caused this every time I used it regardless of what my po4 level was. Now you just have to be patient and let the coral heal