Corals dying like clockwork

[wareagle]

Duncan dying screams new tank thats a beginner coral.

It's hiding from the light, trying not to be roasted. High nitrates and low phosphates is a scientifically proven killer. The last study I posted goes over it.

 

[BoneDoc]

Picture of your tank?

 

[Zbutcher]

What’s your alk/ca dosing method, and what do you mean before it would swing?
How low does it get in the morning was the Q

Before I fixed my window and did not have it open all the time it would swing from 8-8.25. now that I fixed it and have it open all the time it stays consistently 24/7 at 8.3-8.4. in the morning currently it goes down to 8.35ish and the high lately has been 8.4

I have a Trident with DOS hooked up. It auto doses my 2 part based on the test results of the Trident and I am also buffering a bit with 300 ml of kalkwasser per day as well to not use as much 2 part it also keeps it much more stable I find.

 

[Zbutcher]

I kind of skimmed so I apologize if you shared already..... Did you start the tank with dry rock or live?

Pre cycled biobricks technically. I started the tank with pre cycled biobricks in my sump. Then a couple months later I bought some live rock from someone local who was shutting down there tank. There was no pests other then aiptasia. And I still have no pests in my tank other then aiptasia to this day.

 

[Zbutcher]

Duncan dying screams new tank thats a beginner coral.

It was doing fantastic for a month. Now closed no idea why. Tank is 9 months old.

 

[Zbutcher]

You have high nitrates, stop bouncing your phosphate around, leave it high, or reduce nitrates, and then you can reduce phosphates slowly. That study and several other studies say that coral grow differently(flesh and skeleton) in different phosphate levels, and that you can even be simulating phosphate starvation.

Changes in Radial Polyp Tissues of Acropora Longicyathus After Long-Term Exposure to Experimentally Elevated Nutrient Concentrations

Coral tissues control growth and calcification processes that ultimately build coral reefs but relatively little information is available on the effects of nutrients on polyp tissues. The structure and organization of coral tissues were investigated using thin (0.5–1 μm) sections of young (<3...

www.frontiersin.org

You can also see this in the tanks of people who carbon dose, they'll dose carbon and get the nitrates down and then they'll do something for phosphate if at all. It's very subtle and they wont spell it out for you, go look at their threads. Study the threads of people who have successfully reduced phosphates, and I bet most of them reduced nitrates first or already had lower nitrates.

Another study


You'll have to download it if you want it.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259525126_Impacts_of_nutrient_enrichment_on_coral_reefs_New_perspectives_and_implications_for_coastal_management_and_reef_survival

There are actually reefs in .2ppm Phosphate, but not at high nitrate.
Another study

(PDF) Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

PDF | Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

High nitrate and Low phosphate gives you the same as Low N and Low P.

So essentially keep my phosphates the same but drop nitrates?

 

[Zbutcher]

It's hiding from the light, trying not to be roasted. High nitrates and low phosphates is a scientifically proven killer. The last study I posted goes over it.

Interesting. What is considered low phosphates? Is .26 phosphate low or high? I know it's higher then the suggested range

 

[Zbutcher]

Picture of your tank?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Interesting. What is considered low phosphates? Is .26 phosphate low or high? I know it's higher then the suggested range

It is slightly low relative to your nitrate, but high overall. People often tout the 16:1 rule for freshwater, but in a reef tank, seems like 10:1 is a better ratio.

Good target is 10ppm nitrate 0.1ppm phosphate.

 

[Zbutcher]

It is slightly low relative to your nitrate, but high overall. People often tout the 16:1 rule for freshwater, but in a reef tank, seems like 10:1 is a better ratio.

Good target is 10ppm nitrate 0.1ppm phosphate.

That's fair. So if I carbon dose to bring down nitrates more that should fix my issue correct?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

That's fair. So if I carbon dose to bring down nitrates more that should fix my issue correct?

It's worth a try. You could have multiple issues simultaneously, so no idea if it will actually solve this problem, but it should improve your chances regardless.

 

[Zbutcher]

It's worth a try. You could have multiple issues simultaneously, so no idea if it will actually solve this problem, but it should improve your chances regardless.

Hmm okay that might be what I do. So the question is do I swap my carbon for new carbon? Or dose with actual carbon (I'm not actually sure what that means but I have heard people talk about using vodka)

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Hmm okay that might be what I do. So the question is do I swap my carbon for new carbon? Or dose with actual carbon (I'm not actually sure what that means but I have heard people talk about using vodka)

Dosing Vodka: Why? | Melev's Reef

www.melevsreef.com

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Couple links on procedure. The point is to create extra food sources for the kinds of bacteria that eat nitrates so their numbers increase. They will consume some phosphates as well but mostly reduce nitrate. This allows your skimmer to export some of the nitrates by skimming out the excess bacteria bloom.

 

[Zbutcher]

Dosing Vodka: Why? | Melev's Reef

www.melevsreef.com

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Couple links on procedure. The point is to create extra food sources for the kinds of bacteria that eat nitrates so their numbers increase. They will consume some phosphates as well but mostly reduce nitrate. This allows your skimmer to export some of the nitrates by skimming out the excess bacteria bloom.

Awesome man thank you so much I'll give this a read and see what happens and let you know

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yes I run carbon. And nope I literally at the moment only have 3 frags. A Duncan head which was good for a month. Now it's perma retracted but not dead.

A dipsastrea which is not dead but not growing. Looks normal I guess.

And this pocillipora

I have tried to not buy any corals only tester ones to try and figure out this issue. I don't like killing things.

Duncans and dipsastrea are not SPS... It may be that lighting and flow are too high for some of your frags, and too low for others?

 

[Zbutcher]

Duncans and dipsastrea are not SPS... It may be that lighting and flow are too high for some of your frags, and too low for others?

I am aware but pocillipora is and that was the frag I was referring to in terms of STN

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I am aware but pocillipora is and that was the frag I was referring to in terms of STN

You also said the Duncan is not doing well. Was just adding a thought.

 

[Zbutcher]

You also said the Duncan is not doing well. Was just adding a thought.

Oooh all good

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Started with 3 month cycled biobricks. Then bought some liverock off someone that was already cycled

How do you know the rock isn't leeching copper, I've seen this before in passed down reef rock from old systems. I had a tank one time I used a brass fitting on the plumbing and it leached copper for over a year from the rock and sand, I finally trashed the rock...I could see someone selling it instead...

 

[Zbutcher]

How do you know the rock isn't leeching copper, I've seen this before in passed down reef rock from old systems. I had a tank one time I used a brass fitting on the plumbing and it leached copper for over a year from the rock and sand, I finally trashed the rock...I could see someone selling it instead...

I did an ICP test and it came up clear. Attached are pics.