Current Quarantine Protocol

DrMMI

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My bucket has the water measuring Mark's I have no other way to measure the water. So that part I have no choice but to *wing* it.

So if i make a new bucket it wont have the tank water, it will be freshly made. Wont this force an ammonia spike due to the water not being cycled? I cant afford to throw 200$ of bacteria at a bucket in gonna dump out daily. I'm useing a bio wheel that ran in my tank for 2 years. So should have plenty of bacteria, but I dont trust it.
There's very little beneficial bacteria actually floating around in the water. Most of it is on surfaces like sponge filters, rocks, sand, etc. If you had your biowheel in your sump or tank for at least 4 weeks prior, it should be seeded. As far as the water volume, you can always use a pitcher or some other measuring cup that is marked and fill it up that way. I used a 1g pitcher and after every gallon, I made a mark with a sharpie so I would know exactly how much is in there.
 

ProvidenceTidalReef

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Welp I'll never buy a blue tang again. Almost lost 2000$ In Coral over a 60$ fish. Smh.

So basically, change out the water tonight. Then how much copper is safe to dose?
I'm still having trouble understanding how much to dose initially that wont kill fish that are in bucket already. All directions say to remove fish before adding copper then add fish this is one whole confusing mess
 

pochaxoo

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I have some Chaeto in my QT at the moment as it was there before the fish arrived for some water quality effects. I just started treating Copper Power - Day 2 and wondering if there is any negative effect from the Chaeto? I was considering 2 effects.

1) Is it absorbing Copper? it does not appear to be as my first test today was at 1.5 ppm copper and that is what I dosed to the tank yesterday (Hmmm looks like another thread had info that says it does absorb a ton of copper....removing it now)

2) Do you think the Copper will kill the Chaeto immediately and polute the tank?

Any advise appreciated.
 

ssunthar

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2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.
  • Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
  • The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
  • Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
  • Heater/thermometer
  • Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
  • Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
  • A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
  • A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
  • Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.
Days 1 – 3: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.
  • Set QT temperature to 80 degrees.
  • Acclimate the new fish to the QT.
  • Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
  • Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.
Day 4: Begin Copper Treatment
  • Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
  • Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlor) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
  • Feed and top off tank water normally.
Days 5 – 34: Continue Copper Treatment
  • Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
  • Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
  • If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.
Day 35: Copper Done
  • Begin copper removal through water changes.
  • Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
  • Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.
Day 36: Praziquantel Treatment #1
  • Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
  • Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 41, Day 48: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 62: New Fish QT complete
  • Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
  • Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
  • Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.
Very informative, Thanks Jay.
 
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mnreefster

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Thanks for this post! Follow up question, can this process be extrapolated to a DT outbreak if I get all my fish in my QT and leave the DT fallow for the 62 days following everything as you laid it out in order to rid the DT of ich (leaving inverts and coral in the DT)? My LFS recommended this technique more or less (albeit with much less detail) in order to treat one of my fish that started showing signs of ich on its fin.
 
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Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks for this post! Follow up question, can this process be extrapolated to a DT outbreak if I get all my fish in my QT and leave the DT fallow for the 62 days following everything as you laid it out in order to rid the DT of ich (leaving inverts and coral in the DT)? My LFS recommended this technique more or less (albeit with much less detail) in order to treat one of my fish that started showing signs of ich on its fin.
The fallow period needed is open to debate. At higher temperatures, it is as short as 45 days, but to be safe, people often use 76 days. I guess your 62 days is a compromise between those two extremes. The biggest failure from fallow periods is not clearing the fish completely of ich before moving them back to the DT.
Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I have not seen any mention of introducing Metro during the QT protocol.
I personally don't use it - there are more effective medications to use in the water, and in food, it is SO bitter, that most fish will eat it once then never again.

Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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can cupramine replace coppersafe?? TIA
Many people use Cupramine. I am just more accustomed to using Coppersafe - I think I began using it in 1981 or so.

Cupramine must never be used with ammonia reducing agents, as that will release free copper ions that can harm the fish. I'm a bit suspicious that excess aquarium dechlorinator can cause the same thing, but the trouble is, the copper testing of the water doesn't change, so there is no way to gauge if the reaction is happening, other than the fish die.

Jay
 

muffinmanX

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Many people use Cupramine. I am just more accustomed to using Coppersafe - I think I began using it in 1981 or so.

Cupramine must never be used with ammonia reducing agents, as that will release free copper ions that can harm the fish. I'm a bit suspicious that excess aquarium dechlorinator can cause the same thing, but the trouble is, the copper testing of the water doesn't change, so there is no way to gauge if the reaction is happening, other than the fish die.

Jay
Thx Jay
 

DiefsReef

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I personally don't use it - there are more effective medications to use in the water, and in food, it is SO bitter, that most fish will eat it once then never again.

Jay
What do you recommend instead of Metro? My fish hate it too :)

Many people use Cupramine. I am just more accustomed to using Coppersafe - I think I began using it in 1981 or so.

Cupramine must never be used with ammonia reducing agents, as that will release free copper ions that can harm the fish. I'm a bit suspicious that excess aquarium dechlorinator can cause the same thing, but the trouble is, the copper testing of the water doesn't change, so there is no way to gauge if the reaction is happening, other than the fish die.

Jay
We used Cupramine in our first fish qt and found it had to be dosed regularly to maintain the recommended 5.0.
Seems it dissipates quickly.
Changed to Copper Safe in our now second set of fish Qt and find it much easier to keep at recommended 2.5. We only have to dose when we do a water change.

And thank you for this write up Jay, Very helpful!!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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What do you recommend instead of Metro? My fish hate it too :)


We used Cupramine in our first fish qt and found it had to be dosed regularly to maintain the recommended 5.0.
Seems it dissipates quickly.
Changed to Copper Safe in our now second set of fish Qt and find it much easier to keep at recommended 2.5. We only have to dose when we do a water change.

And thank you for this write up Jay, Very helpful!!
I don't have a good substitute to metronidazole orally. I experimented with a related compound, dimetronidazole that was well accepted by cichlids, but I've never used it with marine fish.

Jay
 
Maxout

EASTERN INDIGO

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2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.
  • Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
  • The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
  • Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
  • Heater/thermometer
  • Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
  • Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
  • A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
  • A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
  • Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.
Days 1 – 3: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.
  • Set QT temperature to 80 degrees.
  • Acclimate the new fish to the QT.
  • Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
  • Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.
Day 4: Begin Copper Treatment
  • Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
  • Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlor) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
  • Feed and top off tank water normally.
Days 5 – 34: Continue Copper Treatment
  • Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
  • Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
  • If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.
Day 35: Copper Done
  • Begin copper removal through water changes.
  • Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
  • Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.
Day 36: Praziquantel Treatment #1
  • Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
  • Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 41, Day 48: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 62: New Fish QT complete
  • Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
  • Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
  • Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.
Can you tell me, or tell me where to go to find out, what the least expensive spectrometer is that can accurately read CP levels? I know it's expensive, and I know the concentration can be approximated, but I'm tired of losing fish and am willing to spend the money unless it is astronomically prohibitive. I want to be exact, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS GREAT POST ABOVE. I just posted a question asking for exactly this.
 

EASTERN INDIGO

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2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.
  • Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
  • The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
  • Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
  • Heater/thermometer
  • Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
  • Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
  • A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
  • A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
  • Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.
Days 1 – 3: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.
  • Set QT temperature to 80 degrees.
  • Acclimate the new fish to the QT.
  • Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
  • Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.
Day 4: Begin Copper Treatment
  • Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
  • Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlor) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
  • Feed and top off tank water normally.
Days 5 – 34: Continue Copper Treatment
  • Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
  • Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
  • If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.
Day 35: Copper Done
  • Begin copper removal through water changes.
  • Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
  • Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.
Day 36: Praziquantel Treatment #1
  • Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
  • Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 41, Day 48: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 62: New Fish QT complete
  • Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
  • Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
  • Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.
Do you have the same information for CP instead of copper (for copper sensitive fish)?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Can you tell me, or tell me where to go to find out, what the least expensive spectrometer is that can accurately read CP levels? I know it's expensive, and I know the concentration can be approximated, but I'm tired of losing fish and am willing to spend the money unless it is astronomically prohibitive. I want to be exact, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS GREAT POST ABOVE. I just posted a question asking for exactly this.
The trouble is that you need an ultraviolet spectrophotometer to read chloroquine. You also need quartz cuvettes. I think the cheapest UV spec is $3000 and the one my lab has is around $5000 (A Hach DR5000).

Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Do you have the same information for CP instead of copper (for copper sensitive fish)?
Well, I stopped using chloroquine because I was finding many more sensitivity reactions with it compared to Coppersafe. I kept dialing back my working concentration; 20 mg/l to 15 to 12. Chloroquine is safer than copper sulfate/citric acid IMO, and it is better at controlling severe disease than coppersafe, but in the end, I was seeing some weird fish loses.

Based on what I used to do - I think you can substitute one full dose of CP at 15 ppm instead of the 30 days copper.


Jay
 

mike89t

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Jay,

this is great information. I’ve been out of the hobby for over 10 years and a lot has changed since then.

I picked up a 20gal tall from PetCo yesterday as all of their tanks were 50% off and $24 for a brand new QT tank seemed like a great deal.
I’ve always liked to paint the back black and the bottom white for my QTs. I feel a black back combined with a large PVC T provides a place for the fish to “hide” and help them with the healing process. I like the white bottom because it helps show where leftover food or poop needs to be vacuumed out and also helps me observe the fish.



DFF302F2-402E-4CFB-8275-B0AB75C8E892.jpeg


Questions:

1: I have a small powerhead in there currently. Should I remove it?

2: In your current steps you mention to acclimate the fish but didn’t elaborate. I went to the sticky with the links and the first link has acclimation steps, but the QT steps are different from your latest post here. So I’m kind of confused. Obviously I want to follow the latest guidelines in this thread. However what is the best way to acclimate a fish just brought home from the store prior to adding to the QT? I used to drip acclimate. Is that still the best practice?
 
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