Cycle Help and Guidance

[fernalfer]

Ok a little history. I have a 120 gallon 48x24x24 tank. Inside i have 120 lbs. of Marco Dry Rock (That was soaking in Brute tubs 3 months prior to filling tank with water using phospfree to rid the leeching phosphates) and Live Caribsea special grade sand.

Now i used the fishless cycle method using pure ammonia and Fritz9 nitrifying bacteria to help the process along. Here was my process:

Day 1: I dosed the tank to 3ppm pure Ace Janitorial ammonia using the ammonia calculator online to get precise dose. About 5 hours later tested for ammonia and sure enough it was present. No Nitrite, No Nitrates yet.

Day 2: Tested Ammonia right around 2ppm and now had Nitrites present very little .50ppm no Nitrates

Day 3: Ammonia- 0 /Nitrates- 1ppm /Nitrates- 0 Dosed Ammonia to 3 ppm a second time.

Day 4: Ammonia- 3ppm Nitrites thru the roof- 5ppm and Nitrates also present

Days 5-9 I continued to dose Ammonia to 2ppm and within 18 hrs ammonia came to 0. Nitrites remained high and Nitrates were about 50ppm

FINALLY Day 10 after dosing ammonia to 2ppm miraculously Ammonia and Nitrite were 0 and Nitrates about 60ppm

Day 11: Dosed Ammonia to 2ppm and both Ammonia and Nitrites came down to 0 in under 18hrs. but Nitrates remained high 60-80ppm

I now assumed i was cycled. I tested it for 2 more days dosing ammonia and sure enough in under 18 hrs. both Ammonia/Nitrites came down to 0

***Now my tank is empty. No fish, inverts, or corals. I have a lemon peel Tang that will be in Quarantine for 6-8 weeks. The big debate is:

1. Whether to continue dosing ammonia to keep the bacteria fed while doing water changes to bring down the Nitrates.

or

2. Whether to stop dosing Ammonia all together and let the tank do its thing

or

3. Just Ghost feed (flake food/pellets) until your ready to stock

I firmly believe Number 1 is the answer and here is why:

I tested my cycle and sure enough was able to bring dosing ammonia at 2ppm to ammonia and Nitrites 0 in well under 18 hrs. So i began ghost feeding by putting Pellets and flake food in a mesh bag letting the food decay for a full week testing all along the way. Never really got an ammonia or nitrite reading just Nitrates remained high at 60ppm.

So i decided to test my tank to 2ppm after a week of ghost feeding. After 5 hours ammonia was about 2ppm and Nitrites were like .25ppm. About at the 10 hr. mark i tested again Ammonia 1ppm but Nitrites spiked to like 3-4 ppm.

It took ammonia about 12 hrs. to zero out but took Nitrites 36 hours to zero out. So my conclusion is that ghost feeding even killed off some of the bacteria because a week prior when dosing with ammonia it took under 18 hrs. for Nitrites to zero out. Now a week of ghost feeding and it takes Nitrites 36 hrs. to zero out after dosing to 2ppm ammonia.

So to end this long post How exactly do i keep my tank cycled when i have nothing in it and won't have anything in it for awhile?

It has been almost a month and still no algae either. I just don't want to lose my cycle and need the best method possible of keeping it. Ghost feeding isn't working.

 

[jsker]

Edit: I would do #2, you have finished the ammonia cycle. Your tank is still cycling. I would drop in on our two enexpensive fish to see if they will service, if so then mover forward

 

[fernalfer]

I would do #2, you have finished the ammonia cycle. Your tank is still cycling. I would drop in on our two expensive fish to see if they will service, if so then mover forward

Not sure i understand your post drop in two expensive fish and see if they will service? Don't understand. I have no fish and won't for another month he is in quarantine.

 

[brandon429]

No the feeding withheld shortly didn't kill off bac we covered that


In your last thread about whether we have to feed to keep bac alive I presented details showing you don't


Did you ever Google or search out microbiology articles to get counter info from?

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-ta...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

That thread covers your questions fully, hundreds cycle off that thread. Established bac do not downscale after establishment unless you add meds or dry out the system. No cycling param you could face goes undetermined in that thread, it has you covered


It's impossible for you to get closure on your bacteria questions using forum threads you must search out microbiology articles and post them here to support your test takeaways. If you are using Api test kits, that's a big deal too. First sentence of the thread worthy. If not, and this is Red Sea, you can still forego all nitrite testing and focus only on ammonia.

Don't reef until you hit 30 days underwater as a safe window. Nothing you withhold matters to your bac, they are that independent from us. They'd have got in, self seeded, and attained ammonia for feed even if you added nothing but water to a bare glass tank, that just takes much longer. So not only do you not have to feed them, you didn't even have to seed them, earth does that anyway.

 

[PatW]

Your tank would do fine leaving it alone, if you add fish slowly. Bacteria can survive a long time on little or nothing.

I think you are leaning to adding ammonia. Well you can, just add a very small amount like .5 ppm per month. You have already built up the bacteria population, all you need to do is to sustain it.

With your nitrates as high as they are, you need to do some large water changes to get them down to a reasonable level like less than 5 ppm. If you want, you can experiment with carbon dosing as a method of reducing nitrate levels.

 

[fernalfer]

No the feeding didn't kill off bac we covered that


In your last thread about whether we have to feed to keep bac alive I presented details showing you don't


Did you ever Google or search out microbiology articles to get counter info from?

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-ta...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

That thread covers your questions fully, hundreds cycle off that thread. Established bac do not downscale after establishment unless you add meds or dry out the system. No cycling param you could face goes undetermined in that thread, it has you covered

I've read so much stuff i'm unsure but will definitely sit down and read in a few. Just wondering why it took so long for the Nitrites to come down to zero after testing it after a week of ghost feeding.

 

[jsker]

Not sure i understand your post drop in two expensive fish and see if they will service? Don't understand. I have no fish and won't for another month he is in quarantine.

Cheap fish, sorry.

 

[fernalfer]

Your tank would do fine leaving it alone, if you add fish slowly. Bacteria can survive a long time on little or nothing.

I think you are leaning to adding ammonia. Well you can, just add a very small amount like .5 ppm per month. You have already built up the bacteria population, all you need to do is to sustain it.

With your nitrates as high as they are, you need to do some large water changes to get them down to a reasonable level like less than 5 ppm. If you want, you can experiment with carbon dosing as a method of reducing nitrate levels.

Yeah but my issue is if i wanted to add my Tang after what i assumed to be a cycled tank when ammonia and Nitrites went to 0 in under 18 hrs. I would of been way wrong and would of had my fish swimming in High nitrites for over a day which is still toxic to the fish. When i would of thought my tank could handle it. And there would of been no way to know unless i did what i did by retesting it by dosing it to 2ppm.

 

[brandon429]

A current recurring prob is factoring nitrites at all, but it's ok to keep doing so too. Errors in nitrite testing are why we kick out the test and not own the kit. To own the kit adds thirty percent problems to a cycle, makes us chase multiple params.


Are your kits Api brand or Red Sea

What article said the nitrite was toxic in our reef (not a web thread, try to find a peer reviewed article like Randy's in our cycling thread above) I linked one in our thread that said opposite, not critical. Another reason we don't test for it is because after ammonia complies, what nitrite does is inconsequential. Before ammonia complies, what nitrite does is inconsequential

I'm curious as to which post in our cycling thread doesn't cover your cycle, each detail your threads reflect have a specific post # with full details in our cycling thread above.

 

[fernalfer]

Your current prob is factoring nitrites at all, but it's ok to keep doing so too. Errors in nitrite testing are why we kick out the test and not own the kit.

Well i will read that article you posted. I'm just afraid to leave the tank alone without doing anything and 2 weeks from now have to start from scratch and recycle my tank. Just want to make sure my tank is ready to go when my tang is out of quarantine in a month.

 

[brandon429]

That's a fair concern, won't happen :) so you are safe! The bac get more dense in numbers each day, from what you fed so far even if you now stop feeding, and your qt wait time is ideal it coincides with our timelines perfectly from the thread.

Nice job not rushing fish

I'm watching my friend here John.M.Cole take his time qt, and he's keeping his new tank clean and stocked with corals before rushing to add fish, your tank is on a good plan too

 

[brandon429]

I know where much concern should be placed: when you first see algae. The simple choice then becomes farm it or rid it

 

[fernalfer]

A current recurring prob is factoring nitrites at all, but it's ok to keep doing so too. Errors in nitrite testing are why we kick out the test and not own the kit. To own the kit adds thirty percent problems to a cycle, makes us chase multiple params.


Are your kits Api brand or Red Sea

What article said the nitrite was toxic in our reef (not a web thread, try to find a peer reviewed article like Randy's in our cycling thread above) I linked one in our thread that said opposite, not critical. Another reason we don't test for it is because after ammonia complies, what nitrite does is inconsequential. Before ammonia complies, what nitrite does is inconsequential

I'm curious as to which post in our cycling thread doesn't cover your cycle, each detail your threads reflect have a specific post # with full details in our cycling thread above.

I use API and RedSea i'm anal so i use both to get the most accurate reading lol. Reading your thread now. Hopefully it sets my mind at ease a little