Cycle Problem - Help

[JPSika08]

I have some experience in reef aquariums and have cycled some system prior to my actual one.

With my actual one, I really don't know where I went wrong, the system has been cycling for over 90 days now, some quick history of this tank, when I began cycling I introduced a LOT of ammonia, at least above 10ppm, it took at least a month to come down and first signs of nitrite began appearing, of course, these went off the chart quickly and probably the cycled stall as they wouldn't come down after two months and after doing a 25% water change, this are the actual stats of the water,

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites at 0.1ppm
Nitrates: 50ppm
PH: 8.3 - 8.4
Salinity 1.023
Temp 24C

I have introduced Ammonia again to 1ppm and it took for the system to process it to zero in over three days, then nitrites stuck for almost a week at 4ppm and then started to come down, never to 0.

I'm really at the verge of emptying the tank and starting all over again. Before that, a friend of mine with a well-established system gave me some live rocks and sand, also, I have been dosing Microbacter 7 for additional bacteria in the system and lastly, I'm force cycling the tank as I introduced three raw shrimp in the water to elevate the ammonia.

Can someone please shed a light on me with this?

Thank you.

 

[_Conway]

Do you have shrimp in now?
If so check amonia daily and remove them when you have 2-3 ppm amonia.
If after a day your amonia and nitrites are 0 and you have nitrates then great your tank is cycled.
If you still have nitrites then your still mid cycle.

Are you using live rock? Sand?
Are you sure nitrates are 50 or is that max for test kit?

 

[Rob Lion]

We cycle tanks to build up various forms of bacteria , that are needed to convert Ammonia to Nitrites , and Nitrites to Nitrates.

These bacteria need a supply of "food" to keep them multiplying, without it, they die off over time.

By adding so much Ammonia to start with, your tank took a long lime to produce enough bacteria to convert it to Nitrites, once the ammonia had gone, they started to die off. The same with your Nitrites, again because you produced so much of it, it also took a long time to produce the Nitrite converting bacteria, and during that time your Ammonia converting bacteria probably died off.

This has left you with nothing but a lot of Nitrates. But it is not the end of the world, you just need to cycle again with a small amount of ammonia, 1 fresh raw shrimp will be more than enough and as you may have some of the necessary bacteria already in your tank, it wont take too long to grow again. However, I suggest before you do that, I would perform a number of water changes to get your Nitrates down. The bacteria's live on surfaces ,(substrate, rocks etc) , not on within the water its-self.

Once your Ammonia goes down to zero, remove the shrimp as its done its job. I suggest you actually put the raw shrimp into a filter bag when you first put it into your tank, it makes it much easier to take out.
Now measure your Nitrites, when at zero you are cycled, but you need to keep feeding the bacteria's, so until you get real livestock in the tank, put a LITTLE bit of food in once a day, to keep everything working. Your Ammonia and Nitrites will stay at zero, but your Nitrates will grow, so perform water changes to reduce it.

 

[JPSika08]

Do you have shrimp in now?
If so check amonia daily and remove them when you have 2-3 ppm amonia.
If after a day your amonia and nitrites are 0 and you have nitrates then great your tank is cycled.
If you still have nitrites then your still mid cycle.

Are you using live rock? Sand?
Are you sure nitrates are 50 or is that max for test kit?

`

Thank you for your help. Yes, I had three shrimps, just removed two and left 1.
All rock is was dead rock from the beginning as well as the sand, this was used on my former system, though, after shutting it down, the rock and sand were stored for over three years, I assume no living in there after such long period.

I diluted the sample into five parts, the result was 10ppm so multiplied it by 5, they could probably be higher, this is what I don't like about Red Sea Pro test kits, their result limits are too low, I will get an API kit tomorrow which goes much higher.

We cycle tanks to build up various forms of bacteria , that are needed to convert Ammonia to Nitrites , and Nitrites to Nitrates.

These bacteria need a supply of "food" to keep them multiplying, without it, they die off over time.

By adding so much Ammonia to start with, your tank took a long lime to produce enough bacteria to convert it to Nitrites, once the ammonia had gone, they started to die off. The same with your Nitrites, again because you produced so much of it, it also took a long time to produce the Nitrite converting bacteria, and during that time your Ammonia converting bacteria probably died off.

This has left you with nothing but a lot of Nitrates. But it is not the end of the world, you just need to cycle again with a small amount of ammonia, 1 fresh raw shrimp will be more than enough and as you may have some of the necessary bacteria already in your tank, it wont take too long to grow again. However, I suggest before you do that, I would perform a number of water changes to get your Nitrates down. The bacteria's live on surfaces ,(substrate, rocks etc) , not on within the water its-self.

Once your Ammonia goes down to zero, remove the shrimp as its done its job. I suggest you actually put the raw shrimp into a filter bag when you first put it into your tank, it makes it much easier to take out.
Now measure your Nitrites, when at zero you are cycled, but you need to keep feeding the bacteria's, so until you get real livestock in the tank, put a LITTLE bit of food in once a day, to keep everything working. Your Ammonia and Nitrites will stay at zero, but your Nitrates will grow, so perform water changes to reduce it.

Thank you very much for the great information, I too was considering that without enough food, bacteria were probably dying off.

What level of Nitrates should I target after water changes?

So here are the steps I'm planning to do:

1. Remove all raw shrimp from the system.
2. Perform water change (Until nitrate targeted number is reached).
3. Re-Introduce 1 Raw Shrimp
4. Wait for ammonia to spike a little and hit zero, then remove shrimp.
5. Wait out for Nitrites to go up and down.
6. Keep feeding the cycle until livestock is introduced.

Are these correct or did I miss something?

Also, on step 6, what type of food should I feed the tank from time to time? Flake food or pure ammonia?

I have a Bio-Pellet reactor on my tank which at the moment is off, should I kick start it when nitrites reach zero in order to control the Nitrate population?

Thank you very much for help.

 

[jetmaker]

Add bio speria good stuff

 

[_Conway]

`

Thank you for your help. Yes, I had three shrimps, just removed two and left 1.
All rock is was dead rock from the beginning as well as the sand, this was used on my former system, though, after shutting it down, the rock and sand were stored for over three years, I assume no living in there after such long period.

I diluted the sample into five parts, the result was 10ppm so multiplied it by 5, they could probably be higher, this is what I don't like about Red Sea Pro test kits, their result limits are too low, I will get an API kit tomorrow which goes much higher.



Thank you very much for the great information, I too was considering that without enough food, bacteria were probably dying off.

What level of Nitrates should I target after water changes?

So here are the steps I'm planning to do:

1. Remove all raw shrimp from the system.
2. Perform water change (Until nitrate targeted number is reached).
3. Re-Introduce 1 Raw Shrimp
4. Wait for ammonia to spike a little and hit zero, then remove shrimp.
5. Wait out for Nitrites to go up and down.
6. Keep feeding the cycle until livestock is introduced.

Are these correct or did I miss something?

Also, on step 6, what type of food should I feed the tank from time to time? Flake food or pure ammonia?

I have a Bio-Pellet reactor on my tank which at the moment is off, should I kick start it when nitrites reach zero in order to control the Nitrate population?

Thank you very much for help.

Yeah that'll work. Amonia of 2-3 ppm is good.
It's good you got the patience to learn the cycle. Much success for those with patience.
The miracle in a bottle works too but you don't learn much that way.
Good luck.

 

[_Conway]

We cycle tanks to build up various forms of bacteria , that are needed to convert Ammonia to Nitrites , and Nitrites to Nitrates.

These bacteria need a supply of "food" to keep them multiplying, without it, they die off over time.

By adding so much Ammonia to start with, your tank took a long lime to produce enough bacteria to convert it to Nitrites, once the ammonia had gone, they started to die off. The same with your Nitrites, again because you produced so much of it, it also took a long time to produce the Nitrite converting bacteria, and during that time your Ammonia converting bacteria probably died off.

This has left you with nothing but a lot of Nitrates. But it is not the end of the world, you just need to cycle again with a small amount of ammonia, 1 fresh raw shrimp will be more than enough and as you may have some of the necessary bacteria already in your tank, it wont take too long to grow again. However, I suggest before you do that, I would perform a number of water changes to get your Nitrates down. The bacteria's live on surfaces ,(substrate, rocks etc) , not on within the water its-self.

Once your Ammonia goes down to zero, remove the shrimp as its done its job. I suggest you actually put the raw shrimp into a filter bag when you first put it into your tank, it makes it much easier to take out.
Now measure your Nitrites, when at zero you are cycled, but you need to keep feeding the bacteria's, so until you get real livestock in the tank, put a LITTLE bit of food in once a day, to keep everything working. Your Ammonia and Nitrites will stay at zero, but your Nitrates will grow, so perform water changes to reduce it.

This is a better explanation than I can articulate.

 

[Rob Lion]

That sounds like a great plan @JPSika08 .
Any food type will work, just feed as if you have 1 or 2 fish in there. When you eventually start to stock your tank with fish. only add a couple at a time, so your biological process can grow to keep up with the new demand, so that you don't hurt the fish.
The level of Nitrates in you tank to aim for will ultimately depend on your intended stocking of the tank,
Fish only 20ppm will be fine, Soft corals, 10ppm, LPS 5 ppm, SPS, 2ppm as a very rough guide to start with.
The bio pellets will take time to kick in too, they introduce carbon into the tank that yet another type of bacteria feed off to reduce Nitrates and Phosphates, you can start this up after your ammonia drops to zero.
As always, be patient... sometimes doing something slow can be the fastest way to achieve results :)

 

[cjd]

This is why I feel jump starting a tank with additives really isn't worth it . If you just left the tank alone for 30 days in the beginning you would already be enjoying some fish and coral in the tank. Best advice I got when starting out 15 years ago is to set up the tank and then forget I have one . let the nitrogen cycle do its thing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have some experience in reef aquariums and have cycled some system prior to my actual one.

With my actual one, I really don't know where I went wrong, the system has been cycling for over 90 days now, some quick history of this tank, when I began cycling I introduced a LOT of ammonia, at least above 10ppm, it took at least a month to come down and first signs of nitrite began appearing, of course, these went off the chart quickly and probably the cycled stall as they wouldn't come down after two months and after doing a 25% water change, this are the actual stats of the water,

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites at 0.1ppm
Nitrates: 50ppm
PH: 8.3 - 8.4
Salinity 1.023
Temp 24C

I have introduced Ammonia again to 1ppm and it took for the system to process it to zero in over three days, then nitrites stuck for almost a week at 4ppm and then started to come down, never to 0.

I'm really at the verge of emptying the tank and starting all over again. Before that, a friend of mine with a well-established system gave me some live rocks and sand, also, I have been dosing Microbacter 7 for additional bacteria in the system and lastly, I'm force cycling the tank as I introduced three raw shrimp in the water to elevate the ammonia.

Can someone please shed a light on me with this?

Thank you.

IMO, this tank is adequately cycled and I'd move on. The bacteria you added will also ensure that.

Nitrite at 0.1 ppm is not tox concern. People worry about it only because they know it is an issue in freshwater, but it is not an issue in seawater.

 

[JPSika08]

That sounds like a great plan @JPSika08 .
Any food type will work, just feed as if you have 1 or 2 fish in there. When you eventually start to stock your tank with fish. only add a couple at a time, so your biological process can grow to keep up with the new demand, so that you don't hurt the fish.
The level of Nitrates in you tank to aim for will ultimately depend on your intended stocking of the tank,
Fish only 20ppm will be fine, Soft corals, 10ppm, LPS 5 ppm, SPS, 2ppm as a very rough guide to start with.
The bio pellets will take time to kick in too, they introduce carbon into the tank that yet another type of bacteria feed off to reduce Nitrates and Phosphates, you can start this up after your ammonia drops to zero.
As always, be patient... sometimes doing something slow can be the fastest way to achieve results :)

Thank you very much for all your help. :)
And I agree with you, lack of patience and Reef Keeping are opposite actions in this hobby.

This is why I feel jump starting a tank with additives really isn't worth it . If you just left the tank alone for 30 days in the beginning you would already be enjoying some fish and coral in the tank. Best advice I got when starting out 15 years ago is to set up the tank and then forget I have one . let the nitrogen cycle do its thing.

I agree, in my case I didn't use any additives, but I needed to seed the tank with bacteria as rocks and sand are not live. After three month cycle I began using MB7 to seed more bacteria into the tank.

IMO, this tank is adequately cycled and I'd move on. The bacteria you added will also ensure that.

Nitrite at 0.1 ppm is not tox concern. People worry about it only because they know it is an issue in freshwater, but it is not an issue in seawater.

Thank you very much :)

 

[JPSika08]

Just to re-cap a little, I didn't do the water change, though, I left the shrimp in the tank to keep decaying so the bacteria would have some food.

I dropped in the shrimp on last Monday, after one week, I can see the shrimp all 'Chewed up' and it's all slimy, but no signs of ammonia.

Is the bacteria working as it should and this is why I see no spike in ammonia or it needs more time for ammonia to be noticed?

 

[_Conway]

Just to re-cap a little, I didn't do the water change, though, I left the shrimp in the tank to keep decaying so the bacteria would have some food.

I dropped in the shrimp on last Monday, after one week, I can see the shrimp all 'Chewed up' and it's all slimy, but no signs of ammonia.

Is the bacteria working as it should and this is why I see no spike in ammonia or it needs more time for ammonia to be noticed?

Sounds like it.
Check nitrites and nitrates.
Do w.c. to get nitrates down and your good to invert shopping

 

[JPSika08]

Sounds like it.
Check nitrites and nitrates.
Do w.c. to get nitrates down and your good to invert shopping

Thank you, I will do that, also thinking of leaving the shrimp in for the hermit crabs to eat when introduced.