Cycle Question

[brandon429]

@Dave1993

@ReefRusty

hey team, based on simple description here I have these questions for ya'll based on our messages.

1. are these test readings above unexpected in any way shape or form
2. are they true, do we accept this api offer as finally solved done/accurate, didn't vary, this stated set of readings for ammonia and nitrite are verified accurate among api posts?
3. when moving live rocks among tanks, did the bacteria die on you requiring a new cycle-what was the antibacterial aspect of this tank transfer above? its like what you guys did.
4. try and find an API cycler not reporting this exact same scenario...see the purchases they'll make in response to the test. its a pattern, and its sole source is bacterial doubt

Updated Cycling Science thread 2020

The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled. you...

www.reef2reef.com

retail purchases are inflated massively by nitrite testing, falsely, unneeded


How is updated cycling science looking vs the past? the link above was used to fix both your cycles, and we bought nothing extra to fix them.

we put down test kits, 100% of the plan because origin of rock was known and certain. wet transport never kills bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

Post pics of the rocks in question for this thread jramy123


Ammonia and nitrite kits have a lag time that is not factored in today's tests. the reader puts in the drops, holds up the vial, and then all the readers accept the stated levels. there is a wait duration required, and even after that api takes days to show safe ammonia when it was already safe, days ago, there's a lag time for reduction and no lag whatsoever to show an increase, mere overfeeding can show as .5/total alarm mode.

these test kits need to be retired in this thread, they have no bearing on the truth at all. welcome to common reef testing headaches, its not accurate even in 2021. wont be the last time a kit leads to a purchase either.

this hobby refuses to accept its test kits are invalid 99% of the time, and that is a painful acceptance I agree. still won't change how we can easily troubleshoot this cycle again with an updated full tank shot. we are looking for markers of living animals, coralline, pigmentation, algae maybe or cyano, something other than bone white dry rock.

as soon as we see that pic, and assess if there's enough surface area to carry a common reef bioload, we'll stamp the cycle closed again.


and then we can run another test, stick the cycle again, and repeat I love it. Dave will have two hundreds in corals by then and his rock is just like yours. in fact his was treated worse.

 

[Dave1993]

1. are these test readings above unexpected in any way shape or form - been reading and looks like he added ammonia i didn't add any ammonia to my tank it just came ready i also thought my cycle was going bad
2. are they true, do we accept this api offer as finally solved done/accurate, didn't vary, this stated set of readings for ammonia and nitrite are verified accurate among api posts? No api said i had 8ppm ammonia but i'm seeing more and more life on my live rock would all be dead if i had 8ppm right?
3. when moving live rocks among tanks, did the bacteria die on you requiring a new cycle-what was the antibacterial aspect of this tank transfer above? its like what you guys did. - No
4. try and find an API cycler not reporting this exact same scenario...see the purchases they'll make in response to the test. its a pattern, and its sole source is bacterial doubt

 

[Dave1993]

this is my rock

 

[brandon429]

Its fascinating to me how all cycle challenge posts Dave share the same data. none introduce new data

that's why determining status is so simple

 

[nereefpat]

My API ammonia kit tests shows somewhere between 0.0-0.25 in my decade old + display. I just started a cycle in a quarantine tank, and my API kit shows about 2ppm in there. I would not add any livestock to a tank that shows 1 ppm ammonia. I don't think there is a reason to overcomplicate this.

 

[ReefRusty]

1. are these test readings above unexpected in any way shape or form
2. are they true, do we accept this api offer as finally solved done/accurate, didn't vary, this stated set of readings for ammonia and nitrite are verified accurate among api posts?
3. when moving live rocks among tanks, did the bacteria die on you requiring a new cycle-what was the antibacterial aspect of this tank transfer above? its like what you guys did.
4. try and find an API cycler not reporting this exact same scenario...see the purchases they'll make in response to the test. its a pattern, and its sole source is bacterial doubt

1. Test kits are for an approximations, it will never get you a accurate reading. My salifert test showed 50ppm Nitrates yet a red sea test kit showed 10-12 with the same test tube of water. Go figure what do I believe?? The fact that yes I have Nitrates in my tank.. how much id go with the middle of 35ppm haha.
However my ammonia showed 0 for both test kits.
2. Can't speak for api just read what others have posted.. not to accurate.
3. Can't comment on this, started with dry rock.

How long has this tank been cycling for?? As @brandon429 has always said just wait # of days it will process your ammonia weather it be 4ppm or 2ppm or .25ppm

 

[jramy123]

The tank has been up almost 7 days(tomorrow). Thats why it is confusing lol. I never knew there was such debate about the time for cycling. The rocks posted earlier in thread are the live rock from LFS. I only worry cause why some say it is done or close the fact is today the readings have gone up again. im now showing 1ppm ammonia, 1-2ppm nitrite, and 20-30ppm nitrate. I honestly feel like the tank is clearly cycling still and worst case I will just wait till I get the 0 ammonia and trite

 

[nereefpat]

im now showing 1ppm ammonia, 1-2ppm nitrite, and 20-30ppm nitrate. I honestly feel like the tank is clearly cycling still and worst case I will just wait till I get the 0 ammonia and trite

Cleary, to me, your feeling is correct.

 

[Garf]

Yes, just wait and keep testing. I don’t understand the urgency some folk have. Every tank I’ve ever started has always cycled in between three and four weeks. And the worry over not having cycled properly never crosses my mind again.

 

[ReefRusty]

You know it cycling wait and test day 10.. still ammonia wait till day 15 test and if ammonia wait till day 20. not testing isnt going to speed up the process. Just time. I didn't test from day 9 till day 15 and behold my ammonia dropped to 0 and was 0 on day 16 so WC was done.

 

[brandon429]

Day 8 of 32 gallon cycle. New creatures!

Evening. Day 8 of cycling my 32 gal Fluval Flex. very excited about some emerging life. No fish/cleanup crew yet but STUFF IS HAPPENING Looks like 1) mushroom 2) bristleworm 3) no idea 4) no idea 5) (Setup) Any guesses on the last two? Thx

www.reef2reef.com

see that thread

these two threads match

 

[nereefpat]

Brandon, OP's tank has been cycling for a week and shows 1ppm ammonia and 1-2 ppm nitrite. You are suggesting to add animals to that water?

Your answer doesn't need to be more than one sentence, and it doesn't need to include links.

 

[brandon429]

But that constraint prevents you from seeing outcomes from jobs already logged, theyre linked above

saves from having to remark upon patterns and tanks with lifespan feedback in place


debates without links leave me without counter proof

let me ask you this, you mentioned they’ve been cycling one week

did the rock show up dry or wet and cured- what constitutes cycling? Adding bacteria or replacing lost bacteria? your term is too broad I’d prefer you typed more so your feedback matches the type of cycle these rocks comprise

the test levels reported are wrong, and we can show it.

 

[brandon429]

Instant Tank Cycle

Set up my tank Friday. Placed a sizeable chunk of frozen brine shrimp into the filter sock to stop it messing up the tank. Saturday PM Ammonia is 0 Saturday PM added another chunk of frozen brine shrimp different area of sump. Added seeded live rock from other tanks also. Sunday PM Ammonia...

www.reef2reef.com

look how many we did above, every tank in the thread is like Jramys

consider the pics of Op/Jramy’s rocks from page one, those are the pics of already cycled rocks. J’s tank would not make a Macna start date

We should ask what went wrong, what if he did need to be ready on time...what procedure would change here among links showing full readiness

this science is solid Pat, we make good reefs with it for sure.


even after all the work and time and follow up reefs provided, Jramy’s only issue are the test kits known to misread in cycles and TAN conversion hasn’t been applied to his stated readings anyway. Nitrite has no bearing at all, if we can’t get ammonia correct nitrite has no chance


have you ever seen a nitrate test kit comparison thread? They range fifty ppm between brands on a given water sample.

but in this thread, cannot range. The bac are dead.

 

[brandon429]

This meme is old it’s not made for this thread, it represents the age old fight in reef cycling

 

[nereefpat]

Good grief.

 

[brandon429]

All joking aside


really all we (willing skip cyclers) are doing is trying to learn when bacteria fail prediction or uphold it. If we had ever seen an instance of failure to meet expectation, Jramy’s reef couldn’t be so sure. But we see two years of separate instance reefs being streamlined above, and that has value here. I know it doesn’t seem that way, but then again the work threads carry the only accountability because people will let us know quick when something dies. Work threads give practitioners of a given method a place to show back up and say we failed.


We never considered any test kit a determinant of success, it was the living animals every single time. After taking time to search out test brand threads where multiple kits read off a given sample, the importance of test kits in cycling became highly reduced, unwanted info in fact (causes false hesitation, missed start dates, inability vs ability)

 

[brandon429]

API Nitrate test kit false positive?

I randomly have nitrate's through the roof. Readings of 80-180 on API test kit, 2 different ones. Is there such thing as is nitrates being low and API kit giving a False high reading? I am going today to by another brand test kit but I'm just curious if anyone has seen something to this effect...

www.reef2reef.com

a common test kit cycle param everyone agrees the test kits vary.

context of the thread controls what the crowd says. If we title the thread as a mis reading, we will get agreements.

but if we title as cycling, any reading is fact and the bacteria are what’s not ready, every time. The accuracy of test readings isn’t changing, only the thread titles and then the resounding support or denial.


this hobby has no way to discern a skip cycle with today’s kits, thankfully work threads show a way. No author has taken time to write about skip cycling, so there‘s no fault in anyone believing it’s a bunk concept. We will win by sheep volume of work, just like pico reefs and sand rinsing, all former outcasts/ now common.

 

[Garf]

Brandon, OP's tank has been cycling for a week and shows 1ppm ammonia and 1-2 ppm nitrite. You are suggesting to add animals to that water?

Your answer doesn't need to be more than one sentence, and it doesn't need to include links.

Now you’ve started him, he ain’t gonna stop