Cycling problems

[ibryson]

hey guys, I’m cycling my 180g tank and have a question. I’m trying the ghost feeding method and have been doing it for about a week now. NH3 has yet to go over 0.2ppm. The only “source” of bacteria added to the tank is from the 100lbs of Carribsea Live sand. Is it possible the bacteria is already keeping the ammonia from spiking? Or am I not ghost feeding enough? I’m considering just ordering a bottle of Dr. Tim’s ammonium chloride but figured I’d check with you all first!

Thanks!

 

[mta_morrow]

Have you tested for nitrites or nitrates yet?

If so, what are you reading?

 

[ibryson]

Have you tested for nitrites or nitrates yet?

If so, what are you reading?

I haven’t yet, I will tonight. Is an ammonia spike not necessary? Let’s say somehow my nitrates are elevated, should I force an ammonia spike to 2ppm or am I good to continue?

 

[mta_morrow]

I haven’t yet, I will tonight. Is an ammonia spike not necessary? Let’s say somehow my nitrates are elevated, should I force an ammonia spike to 2ppm or am I good to continue?

If you have nitrates, then you “had” ammonia and nitrites.

If you do have nitrates, I would still keep feeding and measuring.

 

[ibryson]

If you have nitrates, then you “had” ammonia and nitrites.

If you do have nitrates, I would still keep feeding and measuring.

Surely live sand alone wouldn’t be enough to go through the cycle that quickly right? I’ve never done it this way so I don’t really have an experience with it so maybe I’m wrong!

 

[mta_morrow]

Surely live sand alone wouldn’t be enough to go through the cycle that quickly right? I’ve never done it this way so I don’t really have an experience with it so maybe I’m wrong!

I wouldn’t think so.

Personally I would go to the hardware store and get pure ammonia with no surfactants.

Also a bottle of any bacteria. API, Dr Tim’s, Bio Spira. PETCO will have API and they all work just fine.

Then, turn off the skimmer and remove any carbon or stuff you may be running.

Add the bacteria.

Next day, dose ammonia to 2 ppm.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Fwiw. If you take any rock or just an empty HD bucket and put in salt water and let organics rot nitrifying bacteria will form. You don’t need a source or seed.

You are just using a slower method to make them form, where as dr t and ammoina is a fast track.
It’s possible with a small amount of food that you won’t see a “spike” as the bacteria are forming at a rate that keeps up with the ammonia production.
The presence of ammoina and no3 indicate the cycle has begun but not enough bacteria yet to fully consume the ammonia.

So at this point you could let it ride or dump a bottle of dr t and ammonia in honestly.
Do nothing and it will cycle or buy stuff and it will cycle.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I agree with @saltyfilmfolks, you have just chosen a more time consuming method. Remember, with the method you chose, bacteria must first break down the food into ammonia. After you have ammonia in the tank, you will start to build a bacteria base that will convert ammonia to nitrite. This process continues for nitrate.

As @saltyfilmfolks said, you could use ammonia and Dr. Tims, or just continue with your current method. The problem with ghost feeding is you really never know exactly how much ammonia was added to your system, you only know the end result. If you chose to continue with your present method, I would continue feeding until both ammonia and nitrite reach 0 ppm, and then do a water change of 15% - 20% to help remove any remaining decaying food.

 

[brandon429]

this is how cycling will work in your tank regardless of whether or not you test for anything:

in 30 days it will be cycled. all the testing, up and down peaks of the interim are not affecting the final outcome, but when in the right proportions they speed it up sooner than 30 days. if you add no ammonia or if you add some, it cycles. If you add bottle bac or if you add none and go off natural inclusions, beyond just the sand, it still cycles.

when you see a nitrite spike somewhere into a cycle, it doesn't matter, and, its likely not accurate anyway. ammonia behavior is the only parameter we need to measure in reef tank cycling and even that's not required, no testing is required to cycle a tank.

you can't not cycle a standing body of water exchanging air with the environment in 30 days, every google cycling chart ever made shows :)

as listed, if you did nothing but waited 30 days, the tank will then pass a light oxidation test which is the hallmark of tank cycling. Duration underwater is the #1 cycling requirement, all else is simply to beat the 30 day natures time frame when required.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


you already dosed bac when you added the sand. to add more bottle bac isn't needed

 

[ibryson]

Thanks for the help! Here’s my plan, please correct me if I’m wrong: I ordered ammonium chloride from BRS so it’ll be here Friday. Tonight, I’ll dump in my two bottles of Bio Spira then on Friday dose ammonia up to 2ppm. Wait for the cycle to finish, then move my three little fish over lol. Fire up the skimmer and lights. Convert my 40g to a QT and continue on from there! Exciting times!!

 

[mta_morrow]

Thanks for the help! Here’s my plan, please correct me if I’m wrong: I ordered ammonium chloride from BRS so it’ll be here Friday. Tonight, I’ll dump in my two bottles of Bio Spira then on Friday dose ammonia up to 2ppm. Wait for the cycle to finish, then move my three little fish over lol. Fire up the skimmer and lights. Convert my 40g to a QT and continue on from there! Exciting times!!

That will work!

 

[RIreefGuy]

Thanks for the help! Here’s my plan, please correct me if I’m wrong: I ordered ammonium chloride from BRS so it’ll be here Friday. Tonight, I’ll dump in my two bottles of Bio Spira then on Friday dose ammonia up to 2ppm. Wait for the cycle to finish, then move my three little fish over lol. Fire up the skimmer and lights. Convert my 40g to a QT and continue on from there! Exciting times!!

Sounds like a solid plan to me!

 

[BeejReef]

Just went through this myself and thought my tank had miraculously insta-cycled. In truth, it had yet to even begin :(
I didn't have enough food, shrimp in my case, ghost fed to really register. Also used live sand and a few pieces of live rock along with mostly dry.

I like your plan of dosing ammonia to a set level. Waiting is hard, but at least you'll have solid numbers you can watch progress. When just ghost feeding you have to watch it go up... slowly, and then down.... slowly.
Also, having some nitrate doesn't mean you're done cycling, just that you're off to a good start.

You might keep your 40g on standby for a week. I had a little nitrite spike after adding my first two fish. Prob not necessary, but you have it on hand.

180G! I'm very jealous :)

 

[ibryson]

Just went through this myself and thought my tank had miraculously insta-cycled. In truth, it had yet to even begin :(
I didn't have enough food, shrimp in my case, ghost fed to really register. Also used live sand and a few pieces of live rock along with mostly dry.

I like your plan of dosing ammonia to a set level. Waiting is hard, but at least you'll have solid numbers you can watch progress. When just ghost feeding you have to watch it go up... slowly, and then down.... slowly.
Also, having some nitrate doesn't mean you're done cycling, just that you're off to a good start.

You might keep your 40g on standby for a week. I had a little nitrite spike after adding my first two fish. Prob not necessary, but you have it on hand.

180G! I'm very jealous :)

I definitely understand the confusion with ghost feeding. There’s not much information out there about how much to feed/how often to feed/how long to wait since it varies so much so I was basically going into it blindly. I will probably stick with dosing ammonia on all tanks from now on since it is easier to calculate.
Also, good point on saving the 40g for a week or so! It’ll be good to have it just in case something goes wrong!!