Cycling with Gulf Live Rock

[Tom Boyle]

Hi All!

Quick question regarding cycling with ocean live rock. I recently purchased 35 lbs of live ocean rock from Gulf Live Rock and put it in my new SR80. I’m sure there was some die off on the rock, however a lot of the larger hitchhikers survived (clams/mussels/tunicates). I did also add Fritz TurboStart 900, as my lfs suggested it. When I initially tested the water, the ammonia/nitrite were spiked (see attached). Six days later, it looked like ammonia looks much better, but the nitrite and nitrate are spiked. I know this is all part of a cycle, but shouldn’t the live ocean rock and turbostart eliminate a full cycle? Do I still need to wait until the nitrite/nitrate gets to 0 before adding any fish?

Thank you!!

 

[JumboShrimp]

Even in a FOWLR, high Nitrites are of course very bad. You really want zero. As for high Nitrates (as with high Phosphates) your fish won't really be in danger unless it gets ridiculously high. You are probably correct about significant live-rock die-off being a factor. I'd wait until the Nitrites and Ammonia are zero (such as through some water changes, and a little time for things to settle in), then start enjoying a few fish.

 

[BristleWormHater]

I'd wait till nitrite hits zero just to be safe.
Nitrate doesn't hit zero in the cycle, the whole goal of the cycle is to convert toxic ammonia to less toxic nitrite and then to harmless nitrate. *Nitrate is generally harmless within ranges of 15-20ppm. Higher values can sometimes cause algae issues.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I’ve used wet gulf rock for my last 4 tanks. 3 (TBS) of the 4 were insta tanks, literally, insta tank. I did have one go that looks like your go. The problem I noticed when I had that situation was, it was like a chain reaction, it got progressively worse for a while. I have a thread from a couple years ago on here that gets pretty detailed. It was the last time I ever used that supplier.

Keep testing and keep doing water changes, at least that is what I did - had to do. Mine got to a point of cloudy water though. If you notice things start to die off, get what die off is rotting out of the water. That was the mistake I made. The toxicity started a domino effect. Ultimately, the tank rocked though and the rock is still kicking hard core.

 

[Tom Boyle]

I'd wait till nitrite hits zero just to be safe.
Nitrate doesn't hit zero in the cycle, the whole goal of the cycle is to convert toxic ammonia to less toxic nitrite and then to harmless nitrate. *Nitrate is generally harmless within ranges of 15-20ppm. Higher values can sometimes cause algae issues.

Would you consider adding this? I have used this before the help speed along a cycle.

 

[Tom Boyle]

I’ve used wet gulf rock for my last 4 tanks. 3 (TBS) of the 4 were insta tanks, literally, insta tank. I did have one go that looks like your go. The problem I noticed when I had that situation was, it was like a chain reaction, it got progressively worse for a while. I have a thread from a couple years ago on here that gets pretty detailed. It was the last time I ever used that supplier.

Keep testing and keep doing water changes, at least that is what I did - had to do. Mine got to a point of cloudy water though. If you notice things start to die off, get what die off is rotting out of the water. That was the mistake I made. The toxicity started a domino effect. Ultimately, the tank rocked though and the rock is still kicking hard core.

Did you do anything else to get the tank through the rough start? Like any particular clean up crew or chemicals?

 

[BristleWormHater]

Would you consider adding this? I have used this before the help speed along a cycle.

I don't think there's a need for that if you started with ocean live rock. I'd just wait it out until nitrite hits zero.

 

[Tom Boyle]

I don't think there's a need for that if you started with ocean live rock. I'd just wait it out until nitrite hits zero.

Would there be any clean up crew that could help with any of the die off from the live rock? Nassarius snails maybe? Everytime I’ve used Fritz 900, it’s pretty much an instant cycle so I’m assuming the live gulf rock is the outlier here

 

[BristleWormHater]

Would there be any clean up crew that could help with any of the die off from the live rock? Nassarius snails maybe? Everytime I’ve used Fritz 900, it’s pretty much an instant cycle so I’m assuming the live gulf rock is the outlier here

The nassarius might help

 

[rockdiver]

It's just a waiting game to I et the cycle do it's thing. Do water changes and such. But the ammonia and nitrite need to go down.
It will happen just takes time.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Did you do anything else to get the tank through the rough start? Like any particular clean up crew or chemicals?

Nope, just water changes. I was doing like 50% a day for a week, then dropped off from there. But, I had cloudy water and wife who wasn’t happy about the smell of death leaking from our bedroom. Yeah, I had the brilliant idea of doing a acro tank in the bedroom. On a side note, I guess I really didn’t have to complain as much as I did about the $5k we spent on a couch. It turns out it was really comfortable while I served out my sentence.

 

[X-37B]

No need for bottled bacteria with the GLR.
I did 150lbs of GLR and never tested ammonia or nitrite in my 170.
Nitrate got to 50+ and I use a deltec nitrate reactor to keep no3<5.
Did the same minus the no3 reactor on 3 other smaller systems I run.
Within a week I added snails, shrimp, crabs, and damsels with no issues.
There is going to be some die off but it's very manageable, imo.
Current tank at 11 months with 50+ hard corals, 1 lps, and 9 fish.
Trochus snails at 1 per 2 gal works well for me.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

No need for bottled bacteria with the GLR.
I did 150lbs of GLR and never tested ammonia or nitrite in my 170.
Nitrate got to 50+ and I use a deltec nitrate reactor to keep no3<5.
Did the same minus the no3 reactor on 3 other smaller systems I run.
Within a week I added snails, shrimp, crabs, and damsels with no issues.
There is going to be some die off but it's very manageable, imo.
Current tank at 11 months with 50+ hard corals, 1 lps, and 9 fish.
Trochus snails at 1 per 2 gal works well for me.

Do you run full spectrum? If so, have you measured Par? # at sandbed, or in your cases the old bottom of the tank?

 

[X-37B]

Do you run full spectrum? If so, have you measured Par? # at sandbed, or in your cases the old bottom of the tank?

Yea I'm getting 400 at the top of the scape and 250+ on the bottom. 200ish in the corners.
3 or4 uv/v bars and 2 Photon 50's.
Photons are currently set at.
Red 60%
Green 60%
White 80%
Royal blue 80%
Blue 80%
Violet 80%
Or4's are ran at 100%.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Yea I'm getting 400 at the top of the scape and 250+ on the bottom. 200ish in the corners.
3 or4 uv/v bars and 2 Photon 50's.
Photons are currently set at.
Red 60%
Green 60%
White 80%
Royal blue 80%
Blue 80%
Violet 80%
Or4's are ran at 100%.

I just posted my lighting situation in the other thread. I’m at 550ish sand bed and 900+ st the top of my rocks, which are around 1/3rd the height of my tank.

 

[X-37B]

I just posted my lighting situation in the other thread. I’m at 550ish sand bed and 900+ st the top of my rocks, which are around 1/3rd the height of my tank.

Cool! I will take a look. I'm getting good growth and color at these levels and the tank is only 11 months old.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The nitrite is not toxic. I’d stop measuring it and ignore it. It will go away in its own time, but there’s definitely no need to add anything to speed that along.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The ammonia was kicking my butt to the couch. I don’t think I have ever tested for nitrite before to be honest with you. I know I have never had a nitrite test or at least I don’t think I have.

 

[Garf]

The nitrite is interfering with the nitrate test, rendering the nitrate test pointless.

Would you consider adding this? I have used this before the help speed along a cycle

NO, not really. It looks already done.

 

[skiergd011013]

Just use the rock and water changes. I have 40 lbs of gulf live rock that i have gotten in the last month or so. I setup a 20 gallon to keep it in with a heater, two koralias, a cheap led light, and two fish so something is being fed and keeping nutrients going. There wasnt a lot of die off, but definitely some. The rock is beautiful. The water had a slight smell for the first few days. I did 50% water changes for the first few days, then 25% for a few more days, now i do a 25% every few days, and the rock is completely usable(probably is anyway after just a few water changes, and a visual inspection/smell test). I have added a few chunks of it to my 3 month old reef which i started with all dry rock. I pulled out some of the dry and replaced it with the gulf rock. Heres my 30 or so lbs of it, minus what i grabbed and put into my reef. This is my first time getting genuine live rock. Its night and day compared to dry rock. Its loaded with purple and red coralline. I was nervous to get real live rock due to pests, but The hitch hikers havent been bad that i have noticed. I caught a few crabs and isolated them, but they may have been harmless anyway. I caught one welk snail, and have nuked a few aiptasias. I read a lot on here first, and agree with the general concensus, the pros far outweigh any cons with liverock