Diagnosis Help - Several Dead Fish

[GoBirds]

I had a Royal Gramma die then 2 days later an emperor angelfish and a flame fin tang. I am attaching the only pictures I have of the angelfish and tang which aren't great. I am also attaching a short video of my springer dottyback because I think his coloring is a little off. IU would greatly appreciate any insight as to what killed my fish and if the dottyback seem ok.

Numbers

-Ammonia: 0
-Phosphates: 0.29. I know it high but it is a FOWLR tank and I have been slowly bringing it down.
-Nitrates: 2
-Salinity 35, but it did drop to 32/33 over the course of about 4 days and I brought it back up over the next few days to 35. AWC problem that I have since fixed. The fish died after I started to bring it back up. I brought it up 0.5-1 ppt per day.
-No temp swings
-Ph: 8.0

Other tank info

-200g tank
-40g sump
-2 MP40s
-Elite 220s Protein skimmer
-Running a tiny bit of GFO and Carbon in a media reactor

Other fish info

I never noticed any bullying to or by the fish that died. I had the royal gramma and angelfish 4-6 weeks. The tang and the springers dottyback are about 1.5-2 weeks. I did not quarantine them. After this I plan to quarantine future additions. All my other fish in the tank, clowns, anthias, firefish goby, lawnmower blenny, copperband butterfly, 6 line wrasse, yellow tailed blue damsels, and inverts all seem fine. My long spine sea urchin lost a few spines but seems normal otherwise.

Yes I planned to either rehome or get a larger tank when needed for the tang and angelfish when they grew. They were only 2-3" when they died.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had a Royal Gramma die then 2 days later an emperor angelfish and a flame fin tang. I am attaching the only pictures I have of the angelfish and tang which aren't great. I am also attaching a short video of my springer dottyback because I think his coloring is a little off. IU would greatly appreciate any insight as to what killed my fish and if the dottyback seem ok.

Numbers

-Ammonia: 0
-Phosphates: 0.29. I know it high but it is a FOWLR tank and I have been slowly bringing it down.
-Nitrates: 2
-Salinity 35, but it did drop to 32/33 over the course of about 4 days and I brought it back up over the next few days to 35. AWC problem that I have since fixed. The fish died after I started to bring it back up. I brought it up 0.5-1 ppt per day.
-No temp swings
-Ph: 8.0

Other tank info

-200g tank
-40g sump
-2 MP40s
-Elite 220s Protein skimmer
-Running a tiny bit of GFO and Carbon in a media reactor

Other fish info

I never noticed any bullying to or by the fish that died. I had the royal gramma and angelfish 4-6 weeks. The tang and the springers dottyback are about 1.5-2 weeks. I did not quarantine them. After this I plan to quarantine future additions. All my other fish in the tank, clowns, anthias, firefish goby, lawnmower blenny, copperband butterfly, 6 line wrasse, yellow tailed blue damsels, and inverts all seem fine. My long spine sea urchin lost a few spines but seems normal otherwise.

Yes I planned to either rehome or get a larger tank when needed for the tang and angelfish when they grew. They were only 2-3" when they died.

Sorry to see and what is age of tank?
One thing these fish have in common is that they are prone to flukes and it’s hard to tell with dead fish but may be the case
If so, you would notice heavy breathing, loss of appetite, itching, scratching, hazy eyes as examples and also hiding
Any inverts?
If so, how are they doing?

 

[GoBirds]

Sorry to see and what is age of tank?
One thing these fish have in common is that they are prone to flukes and it’s hard to tell with dead fish but may be the case
If so, you would notice heavy breathing, loss of appetite, itching, scratching, hazy eyes as examples and also hiding
Any inverts?
If so, how are they doing?

Fish have been in the tank about 4 months.

For the ~2 days before they died they all hid and lost their appetite. The emperor angelfish definitely had cloudy eyes. Not sure on the gramma and tang.

Inverts all seem fine.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Fish have been in the tank about 4 months.

For the ~2 days before they died they all hid and lost their appetite. The emperor angelfish definitely had cloudy eyes. Not sure on the gramma and tang.

Inverts all seem fine.

With inverts doing well, I tend to rule out water quality and point to disease with flukes being suspected issue. With that, if fish remaining , you can add Prazipro at 85% of recommended dosage initially and allow it to run 8 days, then do a good water change and add one more dosage lasting 8 days to address flukes. Also add an airstone as prazi pro reduces oxygen and appetite slightly

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had a Royal Gramma die then 2 days later an emperor angelfish and a flame fin tang. I am attaching the only pictures I have of the angelfish and tang which aren't great. I am also attaching a short video of my springer dottyback because I think his coloring is a little off. IU would greatly appreciate any insight as to what killed my fish and if the dottyback seem ok.

Numbers

-Ammonia: 0
-Phosphates: 0.29. I know it high but it is a FOWLR tank and I have been slowly bringing it down.
-Nitrates: 2
-Salinity 35, but it did drop to 32/33 over the course of about 4 days and I brought it back up over the next few days to 35. AWC problem that I have since fixed. The fish died after I started to bring it back up. I brought it up 0.5-1 ppt per day.
-No temp swings
-Ph: 8.0

Other tank info

-200g tank
-40g sump
-2 MP40s
-Elite 220s Protein skimmer
-Running a tiny bit of GFO and Carbon in a media reactor

Other fish info

I never noticed any bullying to or by the fish that died. I had the royal gramma and angelfish 4-6 weeks. The tang and the springers dottyback are about 1.5-2 weeks. I did not quarantine them. After this I plan to quarantine future additions. All my other fish in the tank, clowns, anthias, firefish goby, lawnmower blenny, copperband butterfly, 6 line wrasse, yellow tailed blue damsels, and inverts all seem fine. My long spine sea urchin lost a few spines but seems normal otherwise.

Yes I planned to either rehome or get a larger tank when needed for the tang and angelfish when they grew. They were only 2-3" when they died.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I agree, this does seem to be a fluke issue. The only thing that doesn't match that are the really tattered fins on the emperor angel - a slight "fringe" on the fins is often a sign of flukes, but this amount of fin damage is more often from tankmate aggression (or being nibbled on by some invertebrate after death).

Of the fish you have left, the copperband is the most likely to have the same type of fluke, and to a similar degree as the fish that died. Can you post a video of that fish?

If you do decide to treat for flukes, here is a primer I wrote up about that:

Dosing Praziquantel (PZQ)

Using Praziquantel (PZQ) to treat flukes Overview In the early 1990’s, a researcher at the New York Aquarium published a paper on using Praziquantel (PZQ) to help control flukes, a parasitic flatworm. Also known as monogenean trematodes, these fish parasites can cause significant mortality in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GoBirds]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I agree, this does seem to be a fluke issue. The only thing that doesn't match that are the really tattered fins on the emperor angel - a slight "fringe" on the fins is often a sign of flukes, but this amount of fin damage is more often from tankmate aggression (or being nibbled on by some invertebrate after death).

Of the fish you have left, the copperband is the most likely to have the same type of fluke, and to a similar degree as the fish that died. Can you post a video of that fish?

If you do decide to treat for flukes, here is a primer I wrote up about that:

Dosing Praziquantel (PZQ)

Using Praziquantel (PZQ) to treat flukes Overview In the early 1990’s, a researcher at the New York Aquarium published a paper on using Praziquantel (PZQ) to help control flukes, a parasitic flatworm. Also known as monogenean trematodes, these fish parasites can cause significant mortality in...

www.reef2reef.com

I have the copperband 2-3 months. Pretty normal behavior for her to swim into the glass like this when I walk by looking for food.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have the copperband 2-3 months. Pretty normal behavior for her to swim into the glass like this when I walk by looking for food.

Looking at the CBB, the fins are a bit cloudy and there are some spots on the left pectoral fin. That may well be early signs of flukes......

 

[GoBirds]

Looking at the CBB, the fins are a bit cloudy and there are some spots on the left pectoral fin. That may well be early signs of flukes......

Here are some videos of the other fish. I don't know if I am just over thinking it, but everyone seems a little lethargic. I am also including an older video of before any of the fish died.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here are some videos of the other fish. I don't know if I am just over thinking it, but everyone seems a little lethargic. I am also including an older video of before any of the fish died.

The pajama cardinal has done caudal fin erosion - anyone picking on it.

I see you have a cleaner shrimp and a cleaner wrasse. Are any fish posing in front of them for cleaning? That’s another sign of flukes.

 

[GoBirds]

The pajama cardinal has done caudal fin erosion - anyone picking on it.

I see you have a cleaner shrimp and a cleaner wrasse. Are any fish posing in front of them for cleaning? That’s another sign of flukes.

I have not seen anyone pick on the pajamas, and they are more lethargic than before. I also notice the fin damage in this video and don't remember it from before.

Fish are posing in front of the cleaners more often. They always did some, but anecdotally I'd say its more frequent.

Seems like treating with PraziPro is a good approach?

 

[GoBirds]

Just fed them Mysis Shrimp and the pajamas were totally disinterested. Unusual for them. Also the butterfly's eyes are definitely a little cloudy.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just fed them Mysis Shrimp and the pajamas were totally disinterested. Unusual for them. Also the butterfly's eyes are definitely a little cloudy.

There could be multiple issues in play here, but I think you need to get a prazi treatment started ASAP.

 

[GoBirds]

There could be multiple issues in play here, but I think you need to get a prazi treatment started ASAP.

What are the odds its velvet and I should just remove all the fish and QT them and treat with copper or something like that instead of prazi? I am new to this and sincerely appreciate your help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What are the odds its velvet and I should just remove all the fish and QT them and treat with copper or something like that instead of prazi? I am new to this and sincerely appreciate your help.

Velvet causes rapid breathing, not eating and then death in a few days. That doesn't line up with what you are seeing here.

In looking back over your photos and video - I hadn't noticed before that the tang is missing an eye and its tail fin is all chewed up also. That's three fish with serious fin damage. As I mentioned, that could be a post-mortem artifact (crabs and worms feeding on them after they are dead) but if not, you have some aggression going on.

You could move all of the fish to a treatment tank and dose them with coppersafe an prazi. That covers about 80% of the common disease issues. However, that "nuclear option" is risky, unless you have a biologically stable tank to use for the treatments.

 

[GoBirds]

my springers dottyback died overnight. One of the pajamas and one anthia both look like they are on their last legs and are pale and breathing heavy. All the fin damage did not appear to happen until everyone started getting sick. Some post mortem, most after they started getting sick. I went with the nuclear option and all the fish are out of the display and in treatment tanks now. Should I treat both prazi and copper power?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

my springers dottyback died overnight. One of the pajamas and one anthia both look like they are on their last legs and are pale and breathing heavy. All the fin damage did not appear to happen until everyone started getting sick. Some post mortem, most after they started getting sick. I went with the nuclear option and all the fish are out of the display and in treatment tanks now. Should I treat both prazi and copper power?

Yes - dose both; copper power at 2.25 ppm (don't ramp it up slowly, get to a full dose ASAP). Then, prazi for the net volume of the tank water and with good aeration. If the fish survive, you'll need to give them follow up prazi treatments.

 

[GoBirds]

There could be multiple issues in play here, but I think you need to get a prazi treatment started ASAP.

 

[GoBirds]

The tanks they are in now have multiple airstones in them. Naturally Murphys law is coming into play and I am going to be out of town for 2 days. I have someone that can feed the fish but I cant really ask them to dose or measure anything. Seems like I could dose Prazi now since thats once every few days. Should I wait on the copper power or is better to get started even if it drops some while I am away.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The tanks they are in now have multiple airstones in them. Naturally Murphys law is coming into play and I am going to be out of town for 2 days. I have someone that can feed the fish but I cant really ask them to dose or measure anything. Seems like I could dose Prazi now since thats once every few days. Should I wait on the copper power or is better to get started even if it drops some while I am away.

Given the fish loss you've seen, you will need to start both copper and prazi before you leave. Both of those, if dosed properly, will not need re-dosing until you return.

That said, having an outside person try and manage a hospital tank on short notice is probably going to fail - no way to monitor and correct any ammonia issues, etc.