Diatom filter for treating external parasites?

[bhavy]

I believe I have ich on just my 3 tangs after introducing 2 tangs 2 weeks ago. I did not qt them as I usually do because the lfs Qts them in .4 copper.
I tested their water it had .3 copper. The fish were at the store for 2 weeks so I felt good about it. 2 weeks later all the tangs had white dots. 3 weeks in and the dots are subsiding!?!? Any one have any thought? Could the new tangs gotten it from my tank? Due to stress and now they are strong and fighting it off?
Thanks

 

[tgrick]

I used to think that the LFS was doing us a favor by having "therapeutic" levels of copper in the water. I really believe they are now doing us and the hobby a disservice. Why? Because if they fail to keep copper at correct levels it holds the ick or velvet at bay but it does not eradicate them. We then buy them, bring them home and a week or two later are faced with having to deal with ick or velvet.

I can't say where the ick or velvet came from. But, it would not surprise me if it came from the LFS because they failed to hold the proper levels of copper required for eradication.

My favorite LFS are the ones that mix the corals and the fish. I can at least tell if the fish or sick or not. Not that it makes much difference for me. I now treat and quarantine EVERYTHING! I trust nothing anymore except my own efforts.

 

[tgrick]

Oh...I wanted to add to this subject of DIATOM filters and ick control/eradication and Velvet control eradication. My thoughts are simple.

Diatom filters have never worked for me when facing ick or velvet. I currently have the following:

1) Vortex XL
2) Not one, not 2 but 3 System One filters! I love these guys. ( I kept fish since the 70s!)
3) The new marine land diatom filter...wanted to try it.

So that's my input. I've never been successful. I've run these guys in small tanks with sick fish and while it delayed things a bit it never eradicated anything.

 

[bhavy]

How do they work for diatoms?

 

[tgrick]

A diatom or diatomaceous earth or DE filter is a filter that filters out very fine particles. I think it can filter down to a single micron which basically means that any parasite larger than a micron gets caught in the filter rather than go through it. So the idea behind these filters is to remove extremely small particulate matter from the water column. The hope was that these filters, being capable of filtering extremely small particles will be successful at removing parasites before they attach to the fish. So pressing that idea forward, it would be effective at removing ick or velvet torrents from the water and the fish would not require medical treatments like copper or CP. In theory it should work. In practice and time and time again I have never been successful at achieving this.

 

[DanielJameS]

I absolutely love my Magnum polishing filter. It comes in EXTREMELY handy when you are moving your aquascape, siphoning your sand, tearing down your tank to catch fish because you’re going Fallow [emoji5]...invaluable tool.

I’ll definitely have that thing running when I do my tank upgrade next month it keeps what would normally turn into a sandstorm/detritus slurry from happening almost entirely.

TIP: I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this here, but if you visit the Box pet store website (that doesn’t end in “Co”) you can pick up the micron cartridges with the option to pick up in store for around $5 [emoji1360] dirt cheap. Great when you need to swap back and forth.

 

[reefwiser]

Love mine. If you have a small tank like I do it is in valuable. I am going to make one out of a filter housing thou as I have a planted tank that is too small for the Magnum now and I can use it on my saltwater tank too.

 

[Cleo642]

Diatomaceous earth filters are a great tool. Had one years ago when I was running a collection of fresh water tanks. I would run one on each tank for a day and then after doing water changes and it cleaned the water crystal clear. I had forgotten about that till reading this thread. Time to find one and put it to use. My thought is to run one on qt while fish are first introduced and getting thier legs under them and learning to eat what I offer. Once meds are introduced I would shut it off unless it’s determined it does not reduce/ eliminate meds. Another 5hought, try running on an empty tank and add meds and see the results. I have to thing it will absorb copper , just how much I don’t know.
Great read so far guys.
Thanks, Jim

A magnum micron cartridge works wonders in any tank. Like fine polishing. When I used have freshwater tanks I had one.

 

[Arvind Arya]

There are 19 pages here and I read the first couple. My tank is fallow for the last week and a half. I had a velvet outbreak and lost all my fish barring one clown and a sailfin.
Can I run a diatom filter to speed up the fallow period? There are no fish in the DT now, so will a diatom filter cut the days needed before reintroducing fish?
Can someone help me with this? Thanks

 

[Brew12]

There are 19 pages here and I read the first couple. My tank is fallow for the last week and a half. I had a velvet outbreak and lost all my fish barring one clown and a sailfin.
Can I run a diatom filter to speed up the fallow period? There are no fish in the DT now, so will a diatom filter cut the days needed before reintroducing fish?
Can someone help me with this? Thanks

Unfortunately, no. There is no way to be sure all of the parasites will get caught in the diatom filter.

 

[Arvind Arya]

Brew
But by killing most of the free swimmers- wouldnt that result in less velvet in the tank overall? Thus- less velvet without a fish host- faster fallow period?
I know its not an exact science but if there are less parasites- that would mean a faster fallow time

 

[Humblefish]

Brew
But by killing most of the free swimmers- wouldnt that result in less velvet in the tank overall? Thus- less velvet without a fish host- faster fallow period?
I know its not an exact science but if there are less parasites- that would mean a faster fallow time

It's a good management tool, but all it takes is 1 dinospore to locate a fish host (before being siphoned out) to continue the lifecycle. That 1 dinospore becomes a trophont (feeding stage) and eventually a tomont (cyst or "egg" stage). Just 1 velvet tomont releases around 200 dinospores, so the numbers game is always going to be in the parasite's favor.

 

[Brew12]

Brew
But by killing most of the free swimmers- wouldnt that result in less velvet in the tank overall? Thus- less velvet without a fish host- faster fallow period?
I know its not an exact science but if there are less parasites- that would mean a faster fallow time

Unfortunately not. If you have 60 people in one city and 30 in another, would you expect the life expectancy of those in the smaller city to be shorter because there are fewer of them?

 

[robert]

The fallow period is designed such that any free-swimmers will die before they can find a host which breaks the cycle. Since the diatom filter only takes out free swimmers - it really adds nothing at this stage with no fish in the system. It doesn't matter if the free swimmers are trapped by the filter or they die for lack of a host.

The real question is whether the fallow periods prescribed are sufficient to fully eradicate the parasite. Recent evidence is that under some conditions found in our tanks, the tomont phase can be substantially extended, potentially resulting in a re-infestation six, seven or eight months after encystment.

 

[Arvind Arya]

Humblefish
Thanks for the reply I enjoy reading your expert opinions on marine diseases and parasites.
Since all my fish are out- only coral and inverts left in the tank- will the DF reduce the overall numbers of spores- thus reducing the overall numbers that are alive and in the tank, thus cutting the population down to a point where they die out faster without hosts?

 

[Arvind Arya]

ok I guess what Im reading from others is that it really wont speed up the fallow period.
I thought by lessening the swimmers- it would reduce their populations. I can see how the cysts can erupt days later and keep the a steady population of swimmers.

My question is- before I put my fish back in.... is there a way to test to see if all is clear. I plan on doing a ICH fallow period just to be safe although I am 99% sure it is velvet killing my fish in days. Not ich.

I swear the company that comes out with a Marine Velvet or Ich test kit will make $$$$!

 

[Arvind Arya]

The fallow period is designed such that any free-swimmers will die before they can find a host which breaks the cycle. Since the diatom filter only takes out free swimmers - it really adds nothing at this stage with no fish in the system. It doesn't matter if the free swimmers are trapped by the filter or they die for lack of a host.

The real question is whether the fallow periods prescribed are sufficient to fully eradicate the parasite. Recent evidence is that under some conditions found in our tanks, the tomont phase can be substantially extended, potentially resulting in a re-infestation six, seven or eight months after encystment.

Hey Robert Im in SV too. I Live in Palo Alto! Where about are you?

 

[Arvind Arya]

Also about the lighting? I know that Velvet is a type or alge/ animal.
Does lowering the light intensity and shortening the light cycle have any impact on its lifecycle? My guess is not much- anyone know if this helps at all?

 

[Brew12]

My question is- before I put my fish back in.... is there a way to test to see if all is clear.

There is. You can put a fresh water black molly into the system. Since it is a fresh water fish it will never have had exposure to any marine parasites and so will not have any immunity. The black color allows the parasite impact to be easily seen. Being a molly, it can make the jump to salt water, and some people even keep them as decorative fish in the marine tanks.
The downside to this is that if the fish does show positive for a parasite, you have to start the fallow period over.

I swear the company that comes out with a Marine Velvet or Ich test kit will make $$$$!

This is so true!!! The black molly test works great other than resetting the fallow period. If this were possible it would be fantastic!!!

Also about the lighting? I know that Velvet is a type or alge/ animal.
Does lowering the light intensity and shortening the light cycle have any impact on its lifecycle? My guess is not much- anyone know if this helps at all?

It does reduce the parasites life cycle. The issue is that I am not aware of any studies that show how much it will reduce the lifecycle by. It could be a few days, it could be almost 2 weeks. Just not sure what would be safe.

 

[Arvind Arya]

How about taking tank water and setting up a smaller tank with the water from the DT- place the molly in there and see if the signs appear. That way, you know if the DT still has active velvet but not re-setting the fallow period? THoughts?