Dino strikes back

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lost66

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I have been battling dino for few months now. My initial battle started by using DinoX which didn't work at all but wiped out chaeto almost completely. Then I started to use microbacter and I am doing that each week for past 4 months. For 3 months I have been using the biggest jebao uv installed directly in the tank, not the sump. Low water flow to maximize exposure. No results at all. I covered my tank completely for 3 days - no results either. I used waste away and at that point rocks cleaned but I still have dino in the sand.

So I siphon sandbed each 2 days using filter sock and after cleaning I add air to power head for 10 minutes to move up all potential debris. And dino strikes back day after, only on the sand.
I keep water "dirty" having nitrates on ~50 and phosphate on ~.20. Tank looks pristine but the sand is killing me.
The picture shows my sandbed after 2 days of cleaning. No bubbles, no stringy thing. It is like a powder, I can siphon it very easily. I used a microscope to verify it is dino. I is not cyano, I treated tank with chemiclean, at this point I am pretty sure I can recognize cyano :)

PXL_20210323_174313950.jpg

Is there anything else I can do? Any ideas what I can try? What is the best time during the day to clean the bed?
 

Tuffloud1

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I have been battling dino for few months now. My initial battle started by using DinoX which didn't work at all but wiped out chaeto almost completely. Then I started to use microbacter and I am doing that each week for past 4 months. For 3 months I have been using the biggest jebao uv installed directly in the tank, not the sump. Low water flow to maximize exposure. No results at all. I covered my tank completely for 3 days - no results either. I used waste away and at that point rocks cleaned but I still have dino in the sand.

So I siphon sandbed each 2 days using filter sock and after cleaning I add air to power head for 10 minutes to move up all potential debris. And dino strikes back day after, only on the sand.
I keep water "dirty" having nitrates on ~50 and phosphate on ~.20. Tank looks pristine but the sand is killing me.
The picture shows my sandbed after 2 days of cleaning. No bubbles, no stringy thing. It is like a powder, I can siphon it very easily. I used a microscope to verify it is dino. I is not cyano, I treated tank with chemiclean, at this point I am pretty sure I can recognize cyano :)

PXL_20210323_174313950.jpg

Is there anything else I can do? Any ideas what I can try? What is the best time during the day to clean the bed?
This is exactly what I’m dealing with. We might even have the same sand. Tropic Eden Reef Flakes?

I also treated with Chemiclean. Got rid of Cyano but this stuff remained.

Have you had any success dealing with this?

My NO3 is at 25 and PO4 at .06.

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zoa what

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Reduce your overall lighting cycle and increase waterchanges

Dinos are exclusely driven by photosynthesis

Reduce intensity or length of photo-period or both

Your tank only needs 4-5hrs of high quality light a day. Past 5hrs its only to please our eyes

In layman's terms....
TOO MUCH LIGHT DAWG

snoop dog deal with it GIF
 
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AJsReef

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You need fast flow trough UV to cure Dinos, low flow is to mitigate fish pathogens. Give UV another try.

This is highly debatable, UV doesn’t cure all types of Dinos. Further, “high flow” leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Arguably flow is useless without also factoring in adequate wattage per gallon.

The Dino thread has a great post here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/...tling-altogether.293318/page-189#post-4617466 post #3770 that’s covers this. In summary 1 watt per 3 gallons being the important piece and then at least 2x total volume turn over but no greater than 12x.
 
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Twillyg21

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+1 UV. I would run it so you have 3x system turnover in an hour. Also, pick up a bunch of copepods.

That combined with the whole Dino program through Dr Tim’s products (waste away is the second part, but you need to use “fresh start” first) is what worked for me in the past. I think it also recommended some time with all lights off.

good luck! Dino’s really test the limits of how much of this hobby’s abuse we will take before we shut a tank down :/
 
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lost66

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I used "CaribSea Aragalive Reef Sand". Stuff Petsmart had for like $5 per bag. Looking good but little bit too fine I can tell after a year with this sand.

I am still fighting but I don't do anything else what I have been doing because at this point I have no idea what I can do. I removed additional, big UV because it was directly mounted to my DT and wasn't looking good. And I haven't seen any difference after a month without that UV.
What I do is to clean the sand once a week. I noticed doing that I am not lowering dino population and made a mess with falling rocks and I knocked off some corals so I don't do that each day I used to do. I stir half of the sand like an hour after lights off and add h2o2 at 1ml/10g each other day if I don't forget to do so - haven't noticed any difference comparing to other, non stir half.

Because I have no idea what I can do next, I don't change water and wait for green algae to appear hoping it will dominate but so far only places like sump and overflow is full of green hairy algae but noting in DT. I have few tangs and I believe they are eating new algae but I really hope it will appear in time.

I think my situation will be even worse because I recently shut down my other tank and installed additional T5 my this tank. Having LED and T5 is a game changer to have this pristine cool reef look but I think it is not good for dino war.
 

Ditryin

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Almost three years ago I woke up to what a Google search said were dinos all over the tank. I went to the LFS, got a Starry Blenny and they were all gone by the next day. I haven't seen any since. ;)
 
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lost66

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Well, that's why you should check on reef2reef what you are dealing with :) I even purchased a microscope and my thing has been identified as dino.

Your blenny has (had?) a very happy, full belly :) Mine is first in line when I hand feed my fish. He always bites me. Amazing creature, one of the best fish in my tank.
 

Tuffloud1

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Almost three years ago I woke up to what a Google search said were dinos all over the tank. I went to the LFS, got a Starry Blenny and they were all gone by the next day. I haven't seen any since. ;)

I have a lawnmower blend in my 30 gallon frag tank. He doesn’t eat the Dinos......

I believe it is actually toxic to fish but I may be wrong.
 
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thedon986

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UV won’t help sand dwelling dinos like amphidinium which is probably what you have. Possibly prorocentrum but they are less common and probably would have been effected by UV at this point. They are known to leave the sand. Amphidinium goes into the sand at night, not water.

Test frequently for nitrate and phosphate and make sure they stay at anything above 0. Search for the amphidinium Dino thread and read about dosing silicate and phyto. Also search for the Dino identification guide and be sure exactly what you have. Continue MB7, I was dosing 30ml a day in my 70g for a while, no side effects. no water changes unless absolutely necessary, maintain all levels by dosing (alk, nitrate, etc.). Took me 6 months to get to the verge of beating amphidinium and I haven’t crossed the finish line yet, but very close. Two water changes in 6 months. Resurgence of Dino each time but less so after the second.
 
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lost66

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Continue MB7, I was dosing 30ml a day in my 70g for a while
I am dosing MB7 once a week, per instructions on the bottle. They say overdosing won't bring any results. Why daily? I read somewhere people do so but I don't really understand that.
phyto? Hmm, that won't harm for sure and I read it brings a proper balance in the reef tank. I have just ordered 64oz, will see if it helps.

Last week I was getting some corals from one of my local reefers, was able to see his system. Guy is in the hobby for around 20 years and he mentioned the one of the biggest mistakes people do is to start the system from the sterile environment and it is hard to directly to well balanced reef from that. That was exactly how I started my hobby - bleached rocks, sand from the bag, cycling with no additives.
Now, when I have a nice aquarium I can enjoy, I have more patience and I will slowly progress towards well established, balanced reef and I hope I will have less surprises in the future once I finally beat dino.

1617630517277.png
 

thedon986

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I am dosing MB7 once a week, per instructions on the bottle. They say overdosing won't bring any results. Why daily? I read somewhere people do so but I don't really understand that.
phyto? Hmm, that won't harm for sure and I read it brings a proper balance in the reef tank. I have just ordered 64oz, will see if it helps.

Last week I was getting some corals from one of my local reefers, was able to see his system. Guy is in the hobby for around 20 years and he mentioned the one of the biggest mistakes people do is to start the system from the sterile environment and it is hard to directly to well balanced reef from that. That was exactly how I started my hobby - bleached rocks, sand from the bag, cycling with no additives.
Now, when I have a nice aquarium I can enjoy, I have more patience and I will slowly progress towards well established, balanced reef and I hope I will have less surprises in the future once I finally beat dino.

1617630517277.png
I can’t say that daily MB7 brought an extra results but it’s relatively cheap and like you I was lacking micro biome diversity so no harm in adding more. There are many different bacteria sources out there you can mix in. PNS ProBio seems to be a pretty unique one but pricey. You could also look into adding a small amount of aquacultured live rock which I did as well. You do gamble with hitchhikers though. I got a mantis shrimp and some aiptasia but luckily the rock the shrimp was in went into my refugium so he has his own home. Once I started dosing phyto and adding pods is when I saw the biggest improvement. Just make sure you are keeping nitrate and phosphate elevated.
 

schuby

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I don't see snot bubbles. It looks more like diatoms to me. They feed on Silicate. Test your RO/DI water for Silicate. As long as you feed them, they stay. Usually burn out on new tank after a week or two, unless being supplied food.
 

Tuffloud1

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I don't see snot bubbles. It looks more like diatoms to me. They feed on Silicate. Test your RO/DI water for Silicate. As long as you feed them, they stay. Usually burn out on new tank after a week or two, unless being supplied food.
There are different types of Dino. The sand dwelling kind doesn’t look like the long stringy snotty kind. It can appear like diatoms.
 
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schuby

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There are different types of Dino. The sand dwelling kind doesn’t look like the long stringy snotty kind. It can appear like diatoms.
Ok. However, if it is diatoms, then treating for dinos will have no effect. Microscope seems best path as op doesn't seem to have done that yet.

I had this issue for 2 months about 6 months into my new tank. Thought it was something else and turned out to be diatoms caused by Silicate in my RO/DI water. Fixed water and diatoms were gone in a week
 

Tuffloud1

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Ok. However, if it is diatoms, then treating for dinos will have no effect. Microscope seems best path as op doesn't seem to have done that yet.

I had this issue for 2 months about 6 months into my new tank. Thought it was something else and turned out to be diatoms caused by Silicate in my RO/DI water. Fixed water and diatoms were gone in a week

How did you fix the silicate issue? I have 3 stages of DI resin so hard to believe it’s a silicate issue.

Did you use a silicate test kit to find out?
 

Tony616

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I fought dinos for 2 weeks and it was hell. I did everything from dosing hydrogen peroxide to no light and nothing work.

Then last week what I did was installed a UV, raised temp to 78-80, raised nitrates to 50, phosphate to 0.5. (yes 0.5)

After few days, other algaes started to grow on glass/rocks and dinos started to retreat.
 
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