Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

[DRTYshredCo]

Also, I have been dosing 5-6 ml NeoPhos daily for about 19 days now in my IM 30 gallon tank (~25 gal water) and still have not been able to keep a stable PO4 level. Daily tests read 0-0.03, even though I am dosing enough that should establish 0.05+ each day. I have a ton of GHA growing now all over the rock and sand to the point where it is surrounding coral and blocking their light.
My questions are if I should be letting it grow out of control, pick at it to keep it at bay, or plus up my CUC (now that I have been running activated carbon) to wipe it out, or a combination of each.
I have been picking at some GHA that is blocking light to coral, but it keeps coming in thicker & thicker.
My nitrates prior to the GHA bloom were 5-10 and are now at 2-5 ppm, I assume the GHA is the source of the NO3/PO4 depletion, but I have read that establishing GHA may help to fight off dinos.
Please advise. Thank you all for your assistance, I look forward to winning these battles ;Meh

 

[ScottB]

If you have that much GHA going, then I think your assumption is correct: it is consuming your NO3 and PO4. I would work to remove as much GHA as you can. Confirm that it is not bryopsis. See if your LFS rents out sea hares.

Not surprising there are some ostreopsis remnants. If they start up again, you can black out the tank for a couple days while running UV.

Young biomes go through a lot of changes, and to the degree you can try and avoid excess interventions. Just let it do its thing as much as possible. Just your basic husbandry. Hang in there.

 

[DRTYshredCo]

Update: Manually removed as much GHA as possible and scrubbed rock with a toothbrush while cyphoning into filter sock. 90% of GHA was removed and purchased a Sea Hare. Hare went strong on eating GHA for a few days then slowed way down, and died 12 days after entering tank. I have been rinsing out the filter floss and UV pad daily for manual dino removal, have only been feeding fish mysis, flakes & Rod’s, changing carbon weekly, and picking at GHA in sand daily but Dino are coming back more and more now. I’m starting to think that the 11W mid-size Innovative Marine UV sterilizer is crap and did not phase them. I have been using it for over 7 weeks and am still finding tons of bubbles in GHA as well as tons of ostis in my microscope from water that dripped off dirty filter floss pad that was hung on my back wall in front of a small power head. GHA returning strong and depleting PO4 again, although NO3 is stable at around 5 again.

 

[ScottB]

Update: Manually removed as much GHA as possible and scrubbed rock with a toothbrush while cyphoning into filter sock. 90% of GHA was removed and purchased a Sea Hare. Hare went strong on eating GHA for a few days then slowed way down, and died 12 days after entering tank. I have been rinsing out the filter floss and UV pad daily for manual dino removal, have only been feeding fish mysis, flakes & Rod’s, changing carbon weekly, and picking at GHA in sand daily but Dino are coming back more and more now. I’m starting to think that the 11W mid-size Innovative Marine UV sterilizer is crap and did not phase them. I have been using it for over 7 weeks and am still finding tons of bubbles in GHA as well as tons of ostis in my microscope from water that dripped off dirty filter floss pad that was hung on my back wall in front of a small power head. GHA returning strong and depleting PO4 again, although NO3 is stable at around 5 again.

Update?

Also, how old is tank again?

 

[DRTYshredCo]

@ScottB Ostreopsis substantially receded, took multiple samples from filter pad water and debris and found no Dino about a week ago... now having that same hair algae coming in very thick. Got another (bigger) sea hare and it has been cruising around a lot but not doing much damage against the hair algae... the strain of algae I have appears a red/brown color and does not come off easily via manual removal. It slips out of my fingers and anchors to rock very well. The sea hare appears not to be very interested in it as it is growing out of control. I recently removed my 11w IM UV and replaced with my normal filter sock after running it for about a week past not seeing any dino. Tank just hit 1 year old. In an effort to ID the algae strain, I noticed a couple of live and dead ostreopsis in the algae sample. Additionally, the algae is growing on living SPS that otherwise appear to be happy and thriving. PO4 0.1, NO3 ~5 ppm, Alk 8.7, Ca 440, Mg 1365. From what I have been able to find it may be a form of hair Cyano or Lyngbya (?). It has also been growing on power heads and the back wall like crazy, so much that I’ve had to continue scraping and cyphoning the back wall.

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB Ostreopsis substantially receded, took multiple samples from filter pad water and debris and found no Dino about a week ago... now having that same hair algae coming in very thick. Got another (bigger) sea hare and it has been cruising around a lot but not doing much damage against the hair algae... the strain of algae I have appears a red/brown color and does not come off easily via manual removal. It slips out of my fingers and anchors to rock very well. The sea hare appears not to be very interested in it as it is growing out of control. I recently removed my 11w IM UV and replaced with my normal filter sock after running it for about a week past not seeing any dino. Tank just hit 1 year old. In an effort to ID the algae strain, I noticed a couple of live and dead ostreopsis in the algae sample. Additionally, the algae is growing on living SPS that otherwise appear to be happy and thriving. PO4 0.1, NO3 ~5 ppm, Alk 8.7, Ca 440, Mg 1365. From what I have been able to find it may be a form of hair Cyano or Lyngbya (?). It has also been growing on power heads and the back wall like crazy, so much that I’ve had to continue scraping and cyphoning the back wall.

Hmmm. That is not an algae type I have dealt with before. Maybe try posting your images to the nuisance algae forum.

I know you are just clear of dinos so I would not go to quick with it, but I'm thinking you might be able to export a little more nutrient. Gradually. Keep the UV cleaned and ready to fire. Point it at the tank every now and then and make threatening gestures to keep the ostreos suppressed.

 

[DRTYshredCo]

Hmmm. That is not an algae type I have dealt with before. Maybe try posting your images to the nuisance algae forum.

I know you are just clear of dinos so I would not go to quick with it, but I'm thinking you might be able to export a little more nutrient. Gradually. Keep the UV cleaned and ready to fire. Point it at the tank every now and then and make threatening gestures to keep the ostreos suppressed.

Posted to Nusance Algae forum! Thx.

I suspected that the flow for the Innovative Marine Midsize 11w UV was too high. It gets inserted to the overflow compartment after taking out the filter sock, and I keep the return pump speed up to increase filtration cycles. To adjust/reduce the flow on the UV side, I put a plastic gift card in front of the overflow grate and it covered 7 out of the 11 flow slots on the UV side. Hoping it made an improvement to the slower flow target.

 

[DRTYshredCo]

Update?

Also, how old is tank again?

Dino came back. Reinstalled UV and filter floss on back wall... Back at it. ;Blackeye

 

[ScottB]

Dino came back. Reinstalled UV and filter floss on back wall... Back at it. ;Blackeye

I went through a few relapses myself. Not unusual at all. Some even get a different species with the rebound. I stuck with ostreopsis and adding back the UV knocked em back. My UV has been put away for a few months now and I am clear. I keep higher nutrient numbers these days.

 

[Harold999]

According the guide in the OP, Amphidinium doesn't form strands. However, i took a strand from my rock and put it under the microscope, it's defenitely Amphidinium. The dino's with the open beak.

 

[taricha]

According the guide in the OP, Amphidinium doesn't form strands. However, i took a strand from my rock and put it under the microscope, it's defenitely Amphidinium. The dino's with the open beak.

I'd love to see pics of what you get under the scope as well as pics of what it looks like in the tank (strings etc).

 

[Harold999]

I'd love to see pics of what you get under the scope as well as pics of what it looks like in the tank (strings etc).

Here they are. Imho Amphidinium that can form strings. Under the microscope the string is still in tact.
By the way, they don't touch any coral. They will cover all the rock and sand, but not corals.

 

[taricha]

Here they are. Imho Amphidinium that can form strings. Under the microscope the string is still in tact.
By the way, they don't touch any coral. They will cover all the rock and sand, but not corals.

Agreed.
These short stubby strands are what the small cell amphidinium outbreak in the guide looked like too.

 

[Harold999]

Agreed.
These short stubby strands are what the small cell amphidinium outbreak in the guide looked like too.

Small cell and not or hardly not poisonous, could that be the reason they don't cover my corals simply because the corals will consume them as soon as they touch?
If i don't siphon/clean for a day or two they cover all the rock and sand, but nothing on the corals. The corals also seem happy if i stir my sand and they go into the column, i think they simply eat them?

 

[taricha]

could that be the reason they don't cover my corals simply because the corals will consume them as soon as they touch?
If i don't siphon/clean for a day or two they cover all the rock and sand, but nothing on the corals.

Dinos attach according to surfaces they like. I suspect they go where they can control the surface. They will colonize coral slime as their absolute least favorite surface (unless there's dead tissue/ exposed skeleton) . Rough, grabby surfaces like rock/sand are preferred.

 

[DRTYshredCo]

I went through a few relapses myself. Not unusual at all. Some even get a different species with the rebound. I stuck with ostreopsis and adding back the UV knocked em back. My UV has been put away for a few months now and I am clear. I keep higher nutrient numbers these days.

Going through yet another relapse, think I’m going to try the green killing machine this time

 

[JpJames]

@traricha thank you for the info here. I think I know what to do next. This tank is a Waterbox AiO 25G, so I was limited, but I modified a 9W uv and have it where the filter sock used to be. I’ve stopped AB+, and I will remove what I can daily by hand. Anything else I am missing?

I think I have Ostreopsis
PH - 8.2
Nitrates - 15
Phosphate - 0.07

 

[ScottB]

@traricha thank you for the info here. I think I know what to do next. This tank is a Waterbox AiO 25G, so I was limited, but I modified a 9W uv and have it where the filter sock used to be. I’ve stopped AB+, and I will remove what I can daily by hand. Anything else I am missing?

I think I have Ostreopsis
PH - 8.2
Nitrates - 15
Phosphate - 0.07

Not ostreopsis. Movement pattern is large cell amphidinium.

 

[ImThatOneGuyJoe]

Sorry to bring an old thread alive could use some help identifying I read the attachment up top but I'm kinda stumped, thanks and hope someone has better eyes than me lol

 

[taricha]

hope someone has better eyes than me lol

I think it looks more like prorocentrum than large cell amphidinium to me.