Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[RMS18]

Do we know for sure that dinos enter the water column at lights out or do they retract into the sand?

 

[mandrieu]

Thank you so much to take your time to help me! I already increased peroxide to 10 ml 3 times a day and Vibrant from 17 ml two times a week to 20 ml two times a week, I removed the chaeto and now almost have clear rocks, with some very small brown patches and a little bit of hair algae but everyday more coraline is showing up, so I think is a good sign. My barebottom is getting green and not brown as before.

I dont see string only small patches of brown
My zoas are full open

I think my tank is going good way and now I see some increase of vitality of my round dinos becouse I needed to put some new salt mix becouse of my salinity dropped, so Im putting new saltwater when evaporation takes place and they love new salt mix.
I was wondering that maybe the low salinity made dinos week and let the green stuff win, or maybe is peroxide or vibrant.
As you say it would be a good idea to buy UV and clear really good my rocks, blowing detritus off. I will try it. Maybe also try metro, I think I will blow my rocks and syphon detritus daily to a filter sock and make two peroxide doses a day but increased amount, only Im scared to kill my cleaner shrimp Thank you very much for all your time and advices Taricha!

Keep going! - It's fabulous to see green stuff!!!
Sorry, I forgot: what's your tank size? Just asking to take note of your dosage concentration for H2O2, Vibrant, everything else. And what's the salt mix you're using?

 

[mandrieu]

Do we know for sure that dinos enter the water column at lights out or do they retract into the sand?

It seems it's dino species dependent. In my case I'm positive they retract or dive into the sand. Other species, mostly "stringy" types seem to get in the water column and float around until they attach again.

 

[RMS18]

It seems it's dino species dependent. In my case I'm positive they retract or dive into the sand. Other species, mostly "stringy" types seem to get in the water column and float around until they attach again.

Hmmm ok. Well the good news is the sand is not nearly as bad as it was yesterday. I'd say 50% better, some spots are appearing but they are light. I think I will dose again but will do it in the day when the sand is brown.

 

[mdavis735]

So do Dinos disappear when lights out? It seems like I remember that from before. Mine are always on the sand. Even after 72 hours lights out. It still gets ambient light, but at night when the room lights are off it's not even thinner on the sand.

 

[Jolanta]

Keep going! - It's fabulous to see green stuff!!!
Sorry, I forgot: what's your tank size? Just asking to take note of your dosage concentration for H2O2, Vibrant, everything else. And what's the salt mix you're using?

Yes I love green I dont even want to clean my bottom now couse Im scared brown will take its place. My tank is about 170 gallons with sump. I didnt rest rock, maybe 150 galons of water or so. I started adding 1 ml of peroxide for every 10 galons a day split in tree doses and going up from there every 2-3 days and observing the tank. Now Im about 2 ml for 10 galons a day split in 3 doses. I have about 2 monts dosing vibrant two times a week. I did two times black out, last one two weeks ago. Always use microbubbles in blackouts with the air pump outside the window. My salt was aquaforest probiotic a month ago I changed for Reef Crystal.

 

[mandrieu]

Hmmm ok. Well the good news is the sand is not nearly as bad as it was yesterday. I'd say 50% better, some spots are appearing but they are light. I think I will dose again but will do it in the day when the sand is brown.

Well, that's good news. So far I've tried most things (H2O2, bleach, Vibrant, Dino-X, Metro, whatever) at night and early morning, lights off. Needless to say I failed in all cases. Recently, I have been thinking about attacking them during the day, lights on, when they are awake. Maybe they are more vulnerable than when they are in cyst state. But what has kept me from doing it is to protect my (remaining) corals. If I had no corals or didn't care, I would probably do it (in any case, after removing the sand, which is what I'm doing right now)

 

[mandrieu]

Yes I love green I dont even want to clean my bottom now couse Im scared brown will take its place. My tank is about 170 gallons with sump. I didnt rest rock, maybe 150 galons of water or so. I started adding 1 ml of peroxide for every 10 galons a day split in tree doses and going up from there every 2-3 days and observing the tank. Now Im about 2 ml for 10 galons a day split in 3 doses. I have about 2 monts dosing vibrant two times a week. I did two times black out, last one two weeks ago. Always use microbubbles in blackouts with the air pump outside the window. My salt was aquaforest probiotic a month ago I changed for Reef Crystal.

Thanks! I believe Reef Crystals is what @Bmwm235i uses and he doesn't get dino blooms after water changes

 

[mandrieu]

So do Dinos disappear when lights out? It seems like I remember that from before. Mine are always on the sand. Even after 72 hours lights out. It still gets ambient light, but at night when the room lights are off it's not even thinner on the sand.

In my case (in the sand) they disappear 90% when lights out. Sometimes I see isolated spots overnight, but the vast majority disappears, then come back during the day

 

[RMS18]

Well, that's good news. So far I've tried most things (H2O2, bleach, Vibrant, Dino-X, Metro, whatever) at night and early morning, lights off. Needless to say I failed in all cases. Recently, I have been thinking about attacking them during the day, lights on, when they are awake. Maybe they are more vulnerable than when they are in cyst state. But what has kept me from doing it is to protect my (remaining) corals. If I had no corals or didn't care, I would probably do it (in any case, after removing the sand, which is what I'm doing right now)

I had tried all the same stuff but I have always attacked at night. 90% of my dinos disappear at night but like you said the bad areas will still remain brownish with lights out. Seems we have the same species. Your the first person I have come across to have the same dinoflagellates as I do.

I am going to increase the dose of chlorine to .18ppm and dose the tank tomorrow once the lights come on. I'll still be under the .21ppm which was a reported level that showed negative effects on a fish. This information came from 1 source that was found on Google scholar by humblefish.

I wish we had more information on how much chlorine a fish can handle before it breaks down and evaporates.

 

[mandrieu]

Seems we have the same species. Your the first person I have come across to have the same dinoflagellates as I do.

Sorry to hear that... We're brothers in arms!

 

[Jolanta]

Thanks! I believe Reef Crystals is what @Bmwm235i uses and he doesn't get dino blooms after water changes

I do see some increase in brown patches now that Im adding new salt mix but I hope it will not develop as before.

In my case (in the sand) they disappear 90% when lights out. Sometimes I see isolated spots overnight, but the vast majority disappears, then come back during the day

 

[mcarroll]

I often see folks mention doing H2O2 treatments at night or in the morning, including in this thread.

From what I've read in the literature, the peak effectiveness for H2O2 treatment is achieved in bright lighting.

This seems to jive with that H2O2 treatment for dino's cited above. CO2 becomes limited and they start producing radicalized oxygen...which leads to cell death. I'm sure that us adding H2O2 to the water helps to assure this effect.

So if you're dosing H2O2 (and you're sure it's the right treatment for what you have) but not getting any results, you might need to dose during or immediately after the day's peak lighting period. If you have a pH meter, dose when the tank's pH is at its daily peak. I might even consider disabling the skimmer to reduce CO2 mixing during this period...at least for a short time.

2¢

 

[Fr4nkthet4nk]

My plan against Dinoflagellates for today.
1.- I will remove all rock and place them in RODI water after brushing them.
2.- Clean and remove any visible dino in the tank (as much as possible)
3.- Filter all my tank water through a sock
4.- Clean wave makers and cables
5.- Dose H2O2 in the middle of the day as @mcarroll said

Probably this is a loose battle but I wont quit.

 

[mcarroll]

Another good quote from that #17 reference on Peridinium that would seem to explain the need for added H2O2 in our treatment.
(http://ac.els-cdn.com/S096098229980...t=1490998102_7e52dde80b25833b868e4be726134031)

Look at the difference between new blooms and established blooms....established blooms can have a large antioxidant capability.

This increase was accompanied by a rising antioxidative activ- ity, as assessed from the amount of H O that remained in the medium 1 hour after the addition of 1 mM H2O2.

Whereas in the two-week-old culture 60% of added H2O2 was found in the medium after 1 hour, only 8% remained in the eight-week-old culture. These data correlate with the antioxidant enzyme activity in the lake during the Peridinium bloom [4].

It would be fun if we had a way to measure H2O2 in the water!

It also appears that in their experiments, a longer period was generally used.

For example...

In Figure 1a they didn't record a preponderance of cells with oxidative stress until Day 30.

In Figure 1b (lower chart) they did not record any cell death until Day 20.

They affirmed that these results depended on light levels and other parameters, but results were consistent/proportional.

Figure 2 is very interesting as they generated the same oxidative stress effects under low light using inorganic carbon (Ci) limitation.

 

[Paullawr]

Visited a new fish shop today. Was about to buy a snowflake clown and ooh what did i see? Curious patches on the sand. Checked some other tanks and rock...Oh yes I recognise that.......

Needless to say i didn't buy the fish.

I'm afraid fish shops won't go to the trouble we are to remove them. So they will just continue to infect tanks and those owners continue to infect other tanks with frag swaps etc.

It's a plague.

 

[Jolanta]

Visited a new fish shop today. Was about to buy a snowflake clown and ooh what did i see? Curious patches on the sand. Checked some other tanks and rock...Oh yes I recognise that.......

Needless to say i didn't buy the fish.

I'm afraid fish shops won't go to the trouble we are to remove them. So they will just continue to infect tanks and those owners continue to infect other tanks with frag swaps etc.

It's a plague.

Yes it is, I saw a tank infested with dinos also in local fish store. Thats why I think starting over its not a good idea becouse sooner or later they will come in a frag or fish again into our system.
My tank looks better today then yesterday, I dont see new brown spots but I see more and more ciano. I hope Vibrant will take care of it at the end. Im really happy and have hope my tank will heal compleatly and this hobby will be joy once again for me.

 

[Paullawr]

If i were you I'd start dosing metroplex now. It will mess with their reproductive cycle. Continue with vibrant but use metro in addition.

 

[Jolanta]

If i were you I'd start dosing metroplex now. It will mess with their reproductive cycle. Continue with vibrant but use metro in addition.

Im scared to change my routines and make them come back My idea is stick to what Im doing and syphon and blow my rocks often and maybe add some copepods to finish whats left of dinos. What do you think?

 

[Paullawr]

Do what you think is right.