Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[Russ265]

OK, Step 1 (identification) is complete! I'm very glad I found this thread!! Is there a write up that summarizes the exact recommended procedure to follow?

this thread is to see if metro will knock them out. seems everyone is having good results.
im on dose 3 as of today and still in the air. although, as others stated, i am on a peroxide regimen as well which could be affecting it.

@twilliard can give dosing instructions. (or others)

 

[puffy127]

Dose 125 mg of metro (1 scoop of seachem metroplex) per 10 g of system volume once per day for 3 days. Turn off any carbon. Everything else can remain. On day 4 and thereafter do manual removal of the dinos. You can turn carbon back on day 7 and a water change. You won't see any major visible improvement until you do manual removal as this method does not kill the dinos, only keeps them from reproducing. You will still see dinos return, just not as fast as before dosing and easier to remove (turkey baster blows them right off the rocks and sand).

 

[jgvergo]

Dose 125 mg of metro (1 scoop of seachem metroplex) per 10 g of system volume once per day for 3 days. Turn off any carbon. Everything else can remain. On day 4 and thereafter do manual removal of the dinos. You can turn carbon back on day 7 and a water change. You won't see any major visible improvement until you do manual removal as this method does not kill the dinos, only keeps them from reproducing. You will still see dinos return, just not as fast as before dosing and easier to remove (turkey baster blows them right off the rocks and sand).

Thanks Puffy127. It's safe for inverts, corals, fish, everything?

 

[puffy127]

No guarantees but those of us that have tried this have not seen any visible effects on inverts or coral. It may deworm your fish if they have internal parasites, though

 

[Russ265]

Thanks Puffy127. It's safe for inverts, corals, fish, everything?

maxima clam, cleaner shrimp, snails, asterina and brittle stars fine. sps look good.

 

[taricha]

Just found this study on the life cycle of Ostreopsis ovata. Let's hope Metronidazole interferes in some way with the cysts ability to progress since it destroys DNA.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568988314000171

Great link. Important if the ostreopsis you are hunting with your microscope change shape, which happens sometimes.
Comments on the cysts.
Lots of people with scopes have had ostis, and some have looked for cysts. I don't know any case where someone found osti cysts in their tank.
Maybe whatever conditions trigger encystment just don't occur in our tanks.
Also, cysts in the wild can be destroyed by the same pod grazers that sometimes eat the active stages. I think I read a paper where cysts that had their mucous covering eaten by pods weren't viable the next growing season, but cysts with mucous covering intact started growing again.
Finally, as cysts that stay dormant for 5 months it's probably not exactly accurate to say that the dinos die of old age or exhaust their life cycle in the 10 day-2 week time frame. But it sure does match our hobbyist experience. People who have gone hard blackout reported that at around 10 days, the dinos were gone and never came back. Of course, they also lost corals too. Those didn't grow back either.
Here's hoping the cyst issue doesn't come up. Fingers crossed.

 

[Russ265]

seems everyone got nailed with dinos at the same time. i also got nailed with it the same time last year.

maybe there is a pollen season for them? they have circadium rhythm.

also some questions on my end.

metro's half life is 8 hours. i can see us bumping it for the lifecycle of dinos, but waiting after the 3rd dose makes me think it's usefulness is gone after 24 hours.

also, it is recommended for human use at minimum 5 days.

why arent we following this?

looking back, it seems people are dosing for 3 days and then waiting for 2 weeks.

help me fill in the gaps here.

 

[twilliard]

I feel the answer there Russ is people excrete our medications.
In a body of water it has nowhere to go until it's effective time has lapsed.
I just did 3 days as a baseline of dosing to begin this work.

 

[miyags]

human use at minimum 5 days.

Good point!! maybe the 3 days would cure a fish problem, But for dinos, who knows

 

[taricha]

seems everyone got nailed with dinos at the same time. i also got nailed with it the same time last year.

maybe there is a pollen season for them? they have circadium rhythm.

They undergo a spring bloom in the wild in many locations.

also some questions on my end.

metro's half life is 8 hours. i can see us bumping it for the lifecycle of dinos, but waiting after the 3rd dose makes me think it's usefulness is gone after 24 hours.

also, it is recommended for human use at minimum 5 days.

why arent we following this?

looking back, it seems people are dosing for 3 days and then waiting for 2 weeks.

help me fill in the gaps here.

I think the half-life within an organism versus in the system itself is very different...

"Degradation half-lives for the primary degradation were 3.3--8.1 days for TYL, 5.8--8.8 days for OLA, and 13.1--26.9 days for MET(metronidazole). Based on comparisons..., it was assessed that results obtained with the current test method slightly overestimate real-world biodegradation rates."
Link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11222042

This was done in moist soil environment. So seems like unless we actively remove/degrade it, it's still there after 2 weeks. Also suggests the concentration goes up with each additional dose in the first few days.

 

[jgvergo]

I feel the answer there Russ is people excrete our medications.
In a body of water it has nowhere to go until it's effective time has lapsed.
I just did 3 days as a baseline of dosing to begin this work.

If I understand correctly, you dosed for three days and saw results after 10 days. 10 days is how long it takes the dinos to reproduce. That means that a three day dose is effective at disrupting their ability to reproduce. Good!

I'd suggest the next experiments should be trying shorter dosing regimes so we can find the minimum dosing duration and amount that are necessary to eradicate the pests. Even though the reports of negative side effects on other tank inhabitants are pretty much non-existent, we should shoot for minimizing the side effects.

 

[Rasengan]

i don't think it takes dinos 10 days to reproduce...10 days is their lifecycle...these things actually reproduce like crazy and very very quickly all the time when they can

 

[twilliard]

It is hard to know time for cell absorption
Sure it may work with a single dose but I would question it.
Unfortunately I have nothing to work with and my additions of no3 and heavy feeding is not working to regain a population of dinoflagellates

 

[jgvergo]

It is hard to know time for cell absorption
Sure it may work with a single dose but I would question it.
Unfortunately I have nothing to work with and my additions of no3 and heavy feeding is not working to regain a population of dinoflagellates

Well, I happen to have a very healthly population to work with Are you interested in conduction a set of "distributed experiments" that are coordinated through this thread? I volunteer to try a different dosing regime.

Also, if you like, I can send you some of my dinos.

 

[Russ265]

Well, I happen to have a very healthly population to work with Are you interested in conduction a set of "distributed experiments" that are coordinated through this thread? I volunteer to try a different dosing regime.

Also, if you like, I can send you some of my dinos.

hmmm did you try the regimen twilliard provided?

how long have you observed your tank since initial dosing?

 

[twilliard]

Well, I happen to have a very healthly population to work with Are you interested in conduction a set of "distributed experiments" that are coordinated through this thread? I volunteer to try a different dosing regime.

Also, if you like, I can send you some of my dinos.

Yes I am most interested in member participation with the understanding this is a study
I do like when members post a picture of tank condition and if possible microscope shots.
I would be more than happy if you would like to participate
You can send me a sample if you would like just shoot me a pm and I will send you the info.

 

[domination2580]

125 mg per 10 gallons. Did i remember that correctly guys?

 

[twilliard]

125 mg per 10 gallons. Did i remember that correctly guys?

Yes you are correct

 

[jgvergo]

hmmm did you try the regimen twilliard provided?

how long have you observed your tank since initial dosing?

I have not dosed anything yet. In fact, until I stumbled on this thread a couple of days ago, I was operating under the assumption my tank had an algae problem. All I've done is cut my feedings to every other day.

 

[twilliard]

I have not dosed anything yet. In fact, until I stumbled on this thread a couple of days ago, I was operating under the assumption my tank had an algae problem. All I've done is cut my feedings to every other day.

How wide spread is it in your tank currently?