DINOS OR DIATOMS

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Hey All!!

Apologies for another addition to this topic from my last; however I’ve done some research under a microscope, and I’m looking for some answers here. I just can’t tell if these are dinos or diatoms. I’ve looked on Google, but just can’t tell. Any advice would be greatly appreciated so I understand how to treat appropriately.

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Wasn’t sure if the first clip went through.

 

[jonelder68]

Dino’s! Possibly see a few diatoms

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Dino’s! Possibly see a few diatoms

Thank you. Is there a good site that represents what each look like?
Been raising NO3 and Silicates slowly but to no avail I cant get rid of them.
Any suggestions?

 

[Miami Reef]

This can help

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

PERFECT! @Miami Reef

This can help

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you. Is there a good site that represents what each look like?
Been raising NO3 and Silicates slowly but to no avail I cant get rid of them.
Any suggestions?

If you have diatoms, those use silicate, so dosing silicates will only feed them. Can you post a pic of your tank?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

How old is the tank?
Picture of the tank and algae would help too!

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Here ya go. I also validated from Miami reef the images he provided for dinos.

 

[Miami Reef]

How much silicate are you dosing? For good diatom growth and dino control, 1–2 ppm silicate should ideally be dosed per week.

Not sure if you’ve seen it, but I recently made a silicate dosing chart to take the math away.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/silicate-dosing-for-reef-tanks.1129689/

 

[jmcdona6]

Here ya go. I also validated from Miami reef the images he provided for dinos.

They seem to be mostly on the sand bed. Going through the identification route and combatting with silicate dosing, bacteria dosing, managing nutrients, etc. is the tried and true option that will likely work over time (weeks...months...longer).

An alternative, I used the below UV sweeper and had great success. Cleared mine up within a week. Tons of other positive success stories out there as well. Even if it doesn't work its only $60. A drop in the bucket compared to some of the other solutions you might find yourself pursuing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/targeted-sandbed-dino-control-with-the-uv-sweeper-by-3dreefing.1114/

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

If you have diatoms, those use silicate, so dosing silicates will only feed them. Can you post a pic of your tank?

Thank you @Fish Fan I have validated through materials from @Miami Reef these are in fact Dino's (Ostreopsis, Amphidinium).
I have created a Calcium Nitrate dosage (current NO3 8.9) schedule, as well as dosed some silicates (0.02). Need to bring them both up a bit.

They seem to be mostly on the sand bed. Going through the identification route and combatting with silicate dosing, bacteria dosing, managing nutrients, etc. is the tried and true option that will likely work over time (weeks...months...longer).

An alternative, I used the below UV sweeper and had great success. Cleared mine up within a week. Tons of other positive success stories out there as well. Even if it doesn't work its only $60. A drop in the bucket compared to some of the other solutions you might find yourself pursuing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/targeted-sandbed-dino-control-with-the-uv-sweeper-by-3dreefing.1114/

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

They seem to be mostly on the sand bed. Going through the identification route and combatting with silicate dosing, bacteria dosing, managing nutrients, etc. is the tried and true option that will likely work over time (weeks...months...longer).

An alternative, I used the below UV sweeper and had great success. Cleared mine up within a week. Tons of other positive success stories out there as well. Even if it doesn't work its only $60. A drop in the bucket compared to some of the other solutions you might find yourself pursuing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/targeted-sandbed-dino-control-with-the-uv-sweeper-by-3dreefing.1114/

Thank you. Were you using MB7 for your bacteria dosing and how often based on your NO3 at that point in time?

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

They seem to be mostly on the sand bed. Going through the identification route and combatting with silicate dosing, bacteria dosing, managing nutrients, etc. is the tried and true option that will likely work over time (weeks...months...longer).

An alternative, I used the below UV sweeper and had great success. Cleared mine up within a week. Tons of other positive success stories out there as well. Even if it doesn't work its only $60. A drop in the bucket compared to some of the other solutions you might find yourself pursuing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/targeted-sandbed-dino-control-with-the-uv-sweeper-by-3dreefing.1114/

Apologies where did you get the UV sweeper from?

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

How much silicate are you dosing? For good diatom growth and dino control, 1–2 ppm silicate should ideally be dosed per week.

Not sure if you’ve seen it, but I recently made a silicate dosing chart to take the math away.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/silicate-dosing-for-reef-tanks.1129689/

I have @Miami Reef those charts are invaluable and thank you for creating them. Much Appreciated.

 

[Miami Reef]

I have @Miami Reef those charts are invaluable and thank you for creating them. Much Appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[jmcdona6]

Thank you. Were you using MB7 for your bacteria dosing and how often based on your NO3 at that point in time?

I saw you commented on the vendors page about how to acquire so seems you are good to go there.

I dosed MB7 before but not with the UV sweeper. I dosed Microbe Lift Special Blend per its instructions...though I am not sure I would say it was a significant contributor. Quite frankly I've never had much luck with MB7 or any of the additives.

My dino journey is like this:

(Round 1) Dino incident #1 (5 years ago). Had a bad bout of dinos in a 150G tank. I believed it to be Ostreopsis at the time. Bought a oversized UV ($$$$) and plumbed into my main display. Did black outs. Dosed MB7. Dosed silicates. Reduced nutrients. Increased nutrients. Tried everything for 6 months and nothing worked. Ended up giving up and downgrading to a smaller tank where I didn't have the same issues...in spite of re-using a lot of the same stuff from the larger tank. Basically a nuclear option biome reset did it I guess.

(Round 2) My new 170G tank I setup last year had a bad dino outbreak about 4-6 months in. Diagnosed as Ostreopsis again. Tried MB7 and Dr. Tims and silicates again...no dice. Tried to increase my nutrients to out compete...no dice. Messed with lighting schedules...nope. Had been running a UV (undersized but still) the whole time...wasn't doing anything. I decided to plumb the undersized UV directly into the display (vs sump) and boom, dino's were gone within a week. Replumbed the UV back to my sump and had no further issues for a long time.

(Round 3) A few months ago I noticed patches starting to appear on my sand bed. With confidence I replumbed my UV into the display and walked away thinking it would solve my problem like before. It did not. The outbreak continued to bloom. Got out the microscope and saw a few types of dinos but predominently Amphidinium. Tried silicates, bacteria and nutrient dosing for a few weeks...it just kept getting worse and had nightmare flashbacks to round 1. Maybe it would have worked eventually...but I came across the UV sweeper I recommended and said why not. Shipped and arrived quickly. Spent 30 minutes sweeping my sand bed and saw immediate (like within the hour) results and gone within 3-5 days. I dosed microbe lift special blend per the instructions but I am not sure if it mattered at all...I was seeing results for several days before I acquired some and started dosing. I did a few maintenance sweeps over the following few weeks...then I cleaned it and put it into my gear closet. I have been clear ever since.

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Ummm…..I vote Opt#3. I already purchased it. I’ve done all of the above and ran through all of the scenarios. I’m at a loss of words tbh and have been fighting it with a lot of science.

I do know this all started when I did a larger than usual water change. I did 40 gal water in a 165 gal and vacuumed the substrate a little too well and took out all of the nutrients (my theory). Nitrates and phosphates bottomed down to zero I’ve been raising them back up ever since. My bio load is knocking down the nitrates with all the coral. The reasoning behind doing that was I hadn’t done a water change in over a month.

 

[jmcdona6]

Ummm…..I vote Opt#3. I already purchased it. I’ve done all of the above and ran through all of the scenarios. I’m at a loss of words tbh and have been fighting it with a lot of science.

I do know this all started when I did a larger than usual water change. I did 40 gal water in a 165 gal and vacuumed the substrate a little too well and took out all of the nutrients (my theory). Nitrates and phosphates bottomed down to zero I’ve been raising them back up ever since. My bio load is knocking down the nitrates with all the coral. The reasoning behind doing that was I hadn’t done a water change in over a month.

I am not so certain that the bottoming out is correlation instead of causation. Once dinos start appearing they start uptaking all the nutrients rapidly. By the time many notice their nutrients are bottomed, they see dinos and assume it caused it. In round 1, I never bottomed out nutrients. If anything I had nutrient problems because I was inexperienced and didn't manage well.

I am not saying the UV sweeper will work. Or that some other solution won't. Its just a tool and an idea. Fighting dino's is somewhat trial and error. No one, even the experts, can look at you with a straight face and say they have a solution that 100% will work no matter what (other than extreme options anyway). Learn, collect knowledge and tools, and see what works. Unfortunately over time if you experience them enough you can gain some intuition and skill around types, causes/correlations and what works and doesn't.

 

[NeptuneSpear2011]

Nope absolutely correct. I’ve dealt with them before and never found any one thing that got rid of them. Blackouts helped but there’s consequences.

Thanks again!!