DIY Alkatronic reagent

[kenchilada]

Good job. Everyone be very careful handling muriatic if you try this. The fumes are nasty and it’s not fun if it splashes on you either.

 

[SimbaAnto]

I finally made the leap to using muriatic acid. I had been dreading doing the cut over. I had calculated the required dilution ratio a few years ago (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-alkatronic-reagent.639360/post-11029448), but had been hesitant to actually make the change. The reason for my hesitation is that I had zeroed in on the dilution factor using a slightly odd technique using a Hanna checker and a stale off the shelf alkalinity standard and was not too confident that I had not messed it up. This would be the first time I actually mixed up any reagent using the calculated ratio.

The ratio that I calculated is 99:1. So 10 ml of muriatic in 1000 ml of RODI should give the same as the 0.1N reagent I had been purchasing through Amazon (before Amazon cut Canada off from this product).

I planned to mix it in a 1L volumetric flask, and to use a 10 ml pipette to measure the muriatic acid. I only have 2 pipettes, a 1000 ul and a 10,000 ul, and I don't use the 10,000 ul (10 ml) one very often, so I decided to test it's accuracy. I set it to 10 ml and pulled some RODI in and expelled it into a 10 ml volumetric flask. The flask overflowed. Hmm, so one of them was off. I figured it was the pipette, so I started fiddling with the setting on the pipette until I arrived at a setting of 9.88 ml to fill the 10 ml volumetric flask to the etched line on it's neck.

I filled the 1 L volumtric flask half full with RODI and pipetted (what I hoped would be) 10 ml of muriatic acid into it. Then I filled the rest of the needed RODI into the 1 L flask and set about doing the normal 4:1 dillution ( 1 L RODI, 250 ml 0.1N) using the newly created 0.1N base reagent.

I added those 2 flasks into my Alkatronic reservoir. There was still about 1/2" of old reagent in the reservoir that was made with the off the shelf 0.1N reagent.

The moment of truth was here. How far off would the reading be? Would it be too far off to be usable? I was already thinking in my head that if it was too far out of whack, I may need to dump the newly mixed 0.1N base reagent and start tweaking the 10 ml of muriatic acid to test other ratios ...

I requested an Extra Measurment from the Alkatroninc and crossed my fingers. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Success, or what I consider success! The first measurement was only - 0.5 dKH off from the latest measurment using the off the shelf 0.1N reagent base (2024-11-23 14:00). I did a second extra meaurement to make sure the tubing only contained reagent based on the muriatic and the reading dropped to a spread of - 0.67 dKH. I can live with that.

The readings after the cut over in the above graph show my alkalinity control process start to adjust the flow rate on my CaRx to get the reading back to my target reading of 10 dKH. In case you were wondering why about the increase over the days after the cut over.

For the next time, I plan to use a 100 ml volumetric flask for the muriatic, and mix it into 10 L of RODI. This will give me 10 L of 0.1N reagent and no requirement to buy the OEM 0.1N reagent ever. I had dropped my testing to every 6 hours as I was conserving reagent, but now I can go back to my prefered test every 3 hours again.

I consider the switch over to using the 10N muriatic acid a success. I don't know what I was worried about! ;)

Dennis

From a price point, i felt HCL is a better one and also its right on spot.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Good job. Everyone be very careful handling muriatic if you try this. The fumes are nasty and it’s not fun if it splashes on you either.

Yes, I should have mentioned that in my post. I did the work on my (glass topped) stove with the overhead vent turned on to suck the fumes away from me. I also worked with nitrile gloves and protective eye wear on.

As soon as you pour some muriatic acid out of the container, it starts to hiss as it reacts with the water vapour in the air. Definitely nasty stuff.

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I should have mentioned that in my post. I did the work on my (glass topped) stove with the overhead vent turned on to suck the fumes away from me. I also worked with nitrile gloves and protective eye wear on.

As soon as you pour some muriatic acid out of the container, it starts to hiss as it reacts with the water vapour in the air. Definitely nasty stuff.

Dennis

You hear an audible sound?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

You hear an audible sound?

I just checked. It sizzles and hisses, but only when poured into a recently cleaned (and dried) beaker. I am guessing that even though I dry the beaker with a paper towel, there is still enough remnants on the surface to react with the muriatic acid.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just checked. It sizzles and hisses, but only when poured into a recently cleaned (and dried) beaker. I am guessing that even though I dry the beaker with a paper towel, there is still enough remnants on the surface to react with the muriatic acid.

Ah, OK, make sense. :)

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Good job. Everyone be very careful handling muriatic if you try this. The fumes are nasty and it’s not fun if it splashes on you either.

It's a great way to turn a nasty yellow boat bright whit again!!

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I think I will be adding a 5000ml volumetric flask to my equipment. The reason is that now that I am using muriatic acid, the cost of the supplies becomes negligible, so I can increase the testing frequency with very little added expense. However, increasing the testing frequency will increase the need to mix up new 0.02N reagent more often. The solution is to mix in larger volumes. I have been using 1000ml volumetric flasks for the mixing in the past, so mixing in larger volumes requires multiple mixes during the same re-fill procedure. This adds to the effort required, and makes increasing the testing frequency less advantageous.

The solution for this is to use a 5000ml volumetric flask instead of using 1000ml ones. That way I can use 50ml of muratic acid along with 4950ml of RODI to get to 5L of 0.1N, or I can use 10ml of muriatic acid along with 4990ml of RODI to get 5L of ready to use 0.02N.

Amazon has the 5000ml volumetric flasks, but they are not cheap. All the ones they offer are class A, so that explains why they are expensive. I can get a German made class A for $183.65 CAD, plus shipping and taxes. So we can call it $200 CAD. As a one time expense, I think that is reasonable.

I am not sure how large the flask will be physically. The listing shows it's weight as 4Kg, so just under 9lbs empty. So fairly hefty to use I expect.

The flask I am considering it also calibrated at 27C, which is fair bit hotter than I would typically keep the local environment and solutions at. I am not sure how much effect using the flask at a cooler temperature would have. I keep my house (and RODI) at 23C. Hopefully this does not affect the end result too much.

Dennis

 

[dwest]

I think I will be adding a 5000ml volumetric flask to my equipment. The reason is that now that I am using muriatic acid, the cost of the supplies becomes negligible, so I can increase the testing frequency with very little added expense. However, increasing the testing frequency will increase the need to mix up new 0.02N reagent more often. The solution is to mix in larger volumes. I have been using 1000ml volumetric flasks for the mixing in the past, so mixing in larger volumes requires multiple mixes during the same re-fill procedure. This adds to the effort required, and makes increasing the testing frequency less advantageous.

The solution for this is to use a 5000ml volumetric flask instead of using 1000ml ones. That way I can use 50ml of muratic acid along with 4950ml of RODI to get to 5L of 0.1N, or I can use 10ml of muriatic acid along with 4990ml of RODI to get 5L of ready to use 0.02N.

Amazon has the 5000ml volumetric flasks, but they are not cheap. All the ones they offer are class A, so that explains why they are expensive. I can get a German made class A for $183.65 CAD, plus shipping and taxes. So we can call it $200 CAD. As a one time expense, I think that is reasonable.

I am not sure how large the flask will be physically. The listing shows it's weight as 4Kg, so just under 9lbs empty. So fairly hefty to use I expect.

The flask I am considering it also calibrated at 27C, which is fair bit hotter than I would typically keep the local environment and solutions at. I am not sure how much effect using the flask at a cooler temperature would have. I keep my house (and RODI) at 23C. Hopefully this does not affect the end result too much.

Dennis

I mix 5L at a time also. But I just use my 1L flask. MOST of the time I don’t screw it up

 

[Nulin]

Hi everybody,
I am new to this forum, but stumbled often over threads of this forum while my researches.
As I am going to pick up my brand new Alkatronic Pro from my dealer this weekend, I am looking for reagents. I at first thought, I would buy the official reagent. No fiddling with chemicals while also setting up the device. That’s what I thought… my dealer couldn’t get the Reagent, because it’s out of stock and another dealer I planned to buy the reagent from had a faulty stock list-not in stock either. So I can’t get the official reagent right now.
As I don’t want to fiddle with chemicals, I got very interested in the conclusion, that the KH Keeper uses the same dilution as the Alkatronic.
So there is basically the possibility of using just the KH Keeper Reagent instead of the Alkatronic Reagent? Can anyone confirm?
Also, how do I calculate the chemical mixture of HCL, if I am only finding 32%,10%, 4%… diluted HCL on Amazon. I slept on chems in school, I guess chems isn’t for me - already tried to research about it, but the deeper I dig, the more confused I get.

Greetings from Germany
Nulin

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not independently know the requirements for these devices, so I cannot answer, and will leave that discussion to others.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

The Alkatronic uses a concentrated reagent of 0.1N of sulphuric acid. This is mixed 4:1 with RODI to get a 0.02N reagent that is then used in the device for tests.

 

[Nulin]

The Alkatronic uses a concentrated reagent of 0.1N of sulphuric acid. This is mixed 4:1 with RODI to get a 0.02N reagent that is then used in the device for tests.

Yeah I understood that(I’ve read the whole thread :D). But I’ve read, that people are also using HCL and it seems to be working. On another thread about the DIY KH Keeper reagent, where I also saw your username, they came to the same conclusion. KH Keeper seems to use 0.2N of HCL mixed with RODI 9:1 (->0.02N). So there from came my thoughts of using the KH Keeper reagent… Or am I missing something?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Yeah I understood that(I’ve read the whole thread :D). But I’ve read, that people are also using HCL and it seems to be working. On another thread about the DIY KH Keeper reagent, where I also saw your username, they came to the same conclusion. KH Keeper seems to use 0.2N of HCL mixed with RODI 9:1 (->0.02N). So there from came my thoughts of using the KH Keeper reagent… Or am I missing something?

Hi Nulin. To be honest, I don't remember what the KH Keeper uses, but based on what you posted, I think you have it complfetely right. All that matters is the strength of the final solution used in the device. So if the KH Keeper uses a dilution of 0.02N, then yes it can be swapped into the Alkatronic.

It does not matter if it is HCL or sulphuric acid, I seem to recall the KH Keeper uses HCL, they are both strong acids. The only thing that matters is the purity if you are returning the waste to the tank. Especially for DIY replacements.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

For a non-chemist who doesn’t want to spend $110 for the Focustronic stuff, can someone share some basic steps and a link of what to purchase? I’ve scanned through the pages and there seems to be lots on information. If anyone can share the cheat code with me, I’ll pay it forward :) lol

 

[kenchilada]

For a non-chemist who doesn’t want to spend $110 for the Focustronic stuff, can someone share some basic steps and a link of what to purchase? I’ve scanned through the pages and there seems to be lots on information. If anyone can share the cheat code with me, I’ll pay it forward :) lol

There are cheaper methods but here’s what I use…

Amazon.com

Using 0.1N sulfuric acid, mix 1 part acid to 4 parts RODI water (I use a plastic volumetric flask).

Example: For 3L: add 600mL acid, add 2400mL H2O

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

There are cheaper methods but here’s what I use…

Amazon.com

Using 0.1N sulfuric acid, mix 1 part acid to 4 parts RODI water (I use a plastic volumetric flask).

Example: For 3L: add 600mL acid, add 2400mL H2O

Thank you!!

 

[ravi197699]

Hello guys, I bought 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution to make diy solution and recipe is 1 part of 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution and 4 part of RODI water to dilute it, which means 100 ml of 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution and 400 ml of RODI water, then I can use this with alkatronic or do I need to dilute this solution further down to be able to use with alkatronic?
thank you,

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hello guys, I bought 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution to make diy solution and recipe is 1 part of 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution and 4 part of RODI water to dilute it, which means 100 ml of 0.1N sodium hydroxide solution and 400 ml of RODI water, then I can use this with alkatronic or do I need to dilute this solution further down to be able to use with alkatronic?
thank you,

Sodium Hydroxide?

You need to use a strong acid...

 

[ravi197699]

This is what I bought based on one of thread on r2r and lost the recipe, do you or anyone has correct recipe for this acid?