DIY battery backup for Nero pumps (feedbacks/advices needed from experts)

[reefer333_]

Hi reefers and #DIYwizards ,

I have been reading up on battery backup options for Nero pumps, and from what I can gather so far, there is none on the market at the moment because the pump driver for AI Nero pumps requires 24v and battery backups on the market only produce 12v. So what happen is the driver lits up, but pump doesn't work.

So I am trying to see whether I can do some DIY option with what I have. I don't know much about electrical wiring, so my apology in advance if questions I am asking are completely dumb.

I have an old coral box battery backup that I am thinking of reusing for wiring connections and fused protection that are already built in.

Coral Box Backup Battery V2 - ReefBreeders.com

The Coral Box Battery Backup Pump Extender V2 works with the latest jebao and coral box pumps, no adapter required!

reefbreeders.com

My plan:
1. I will replace the old 12v battery with 2 new and identical 12V 9Ah SLA batteries connected in series.
2. I will replace the original 12 v battery charger with a battery charger that can support up to 24v, like this one.


Questions.
1. The battery backup's existing circuit board and wires connections were designed for usage with 12v battery. Any potential issue if I use it with 24v battery (2 12v in series)?
2. Will charging 2 12v batteries connected in series with one 24v charger cause any issue down the line?
3. Fused protection built in for coral box battery backup should still work even if I increase the voltage to 24v, correct?
4. Any other potential issue you see with it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reefahholic]

battery backups don’t last long enough. Waste of money.

Get a Power inverter and run off your car battery or get a real battery- LiFePO4 Lithium with 100AH

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

battery backups don’t last long enough. Waste of money.

Get a Power inverter and run off your car battery or get a real battery- LiFePO4 Lithium with 100AH

That is terrible advice. My pair of 7 amp hour lead acid battery backup will run one gyre pump for ~4 days. Even an air pump with D cell batteries is better than nothing.

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

I made my own 24v battery backup that I made a thread for here, https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-battery-backup.709916/

Instead of using a much more expensive 24v battery charger, I just used a single 12v battery maintainer. Then I just switch the charger between each battery once a week when I do my testing.

 

[Saltyreef]

I dont know too much about the components of these all in one battery boxes so i wouldnt have any tips to modify.
But i found this for you

 

[reefer333_]

I made my own 24v battery backup that I made a thread for here, https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-battery-backup.709916/

Instead of using a much more expensive 24v battery charger, I just used a single 12v battery maintainer. Then I just switch the charger between each battery once a week when I do my testing.

Thanks for the response, @Ratherbeflyen. I am too lazy to switch charging every week plus I think if battery are in series, they would need to be equally charged. I found a 24v charger in amazon for pretty good price ($16).

Would you mind answering my questions listed above to help me figure out whether my plan will work? Thanks.

 

[reefer333_]

I dont know too much about the components of these all in one battery boxes so i wouldnt have any tips to modify.
But i found this for you

Thanks, I read the thread here about that, but the person was using icecap version 2.0 that is now discontinued.

Nero 5 works with new Icecap Battery backup

I just purchased the new Icecap 24v battery backup for DC pumps and it works perfectly with the Nero 5:)

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

Questions.
1. The battery backup's existing circuit board and wires connections were designed for usage with 12v battery. Any potential issue if I use it with 24v battery (2 12v in series)?
2. Will charging 2 12v batteries connected in series with one 24v charger cause any issue down the line?
3. Fused protection built in for coral box battery backup should still work even if I increase the voltage to 24v, correct?
4. Any other potential issue you see with it?

Thanks in advance.

1. I'm sure that the manufacture would tell you it will not work. Circuit boards are generally very sensitive to voltage changes, but it might have a voltage regulator that can handle 24v. I can't say for sure.

2. It should be fine, most batteries work this way. Each lead acid cell is ~2 volts. To get to higher voltage, more cells are added. Being in separate battery cases doesn't matter.

3. The fuse will still protect the system from over current. However, changing the voltage also changes the wattage the fuse will blow at. Volts x amps = watts. For example, a 5 amp fuse at 12 volts is 60 watts and will in theory blow if more than 60 watts is applied. A 5 amp fuse at 24 volts is 120 watts. The connected components may or may not survive the additional wattage. Of course you could just use a 2.5 amp fuse and it would fix that problem.

4. It would be safer, and probably cheaper to buy an electrical relay and connect your lead acid batteries through the relay with an inline fuse. Then sell your coral box for $40 and you'd be money ahead. Especially if it can't handle additional voltage.

 

[Reefahholic]

That is terrible advice. My pair of 7 amp hour lead acid battery backup will run one gyre pump for ~4 days. Even an air pump with D cell batteries is better than nothing.

One gyre pump? Lol. We just had a lot of reefers in Texas loose their whole tanks due to their battery backups dying within a few hours and several of them were dead on start up. A Power Inverter with 100AH LiFePO4 battery will SMOKE your 7AH lead acid battery by a long run. 4 days with one gyre pump would not have been enough in Texas last week. Your tank would have died. You would have needed several heaters which really draw the watts.

 

[reefer333_]

1. I'm sure that the manufacture would tell you it will not work. Circuit boards are generally very sensitive to voltage changes, but it might have a voltage regulator that can handle 24v. I can't say for sure.

2. It should be fine, most batteries work this way. Each lead acid cell is ~2 volts. To get to higher voltage, more cells are added. Being in separate battery cases doesn't matter.

3. The fuse will still protect the system from over current. However, changing the voltage also changes the wattage the fuse will blow at. Volts x amps = watts. For example, a 5 amp fuse at 12 volts is 60 watts and will in theory blow if more than 60 watts is applied. A 5 amp fuse at 24 volts is 120 watts. The connected components may or may not survive the additional wattage. Of course you could just use a 2.5 amp fuse and it would fix that problem.

4. It would be safer, and probably cheaper to buy an electrical relay and connect your lead acid batteries through the relay with an inline fuse. Then sell your coral box for $40 and you'd be money ahead. Especially if it can't handle additional voltage.

Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it. Looks like I will scratch that plan then due to voltage change potentially being a problem for the circuit board. Reason I wanted to reuse the box is because I haven't done any DIY wiring before and it would have been very convenient since all the connections are already done in the box and I just need to buy two batteries and a charger.

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

One gyre pump? Lol. We just had a lot of reefers in Texas loose their whole tanks due to their battery backups dying within a few hours and several of them were dead on start up. A Power Inverter with 100AH LiFePO4 battery will SMOKE your 7AH lead acid battery by a long run. 4 days with one gyre pump would not have been enough in Texas last week. Your tank would have died. You would have needed several heaters which really draw the watts.

I guess you missed my signature says I live in Houston and my tank had no loss during the power outages last week. The battery backup is only supposed to provide oxygenation in case of a power failure. Resistance heaters we use take so much power running them on a battery is a lost cause. The idea that you must have 100AH of battery backup is just silly. For the cost a 100AH lithium battery, you can buy an automatic battery backup and a generator that will run your entire tank plus a lot more in your house.

 

[Reefahholic]

I guess you missed my signature says I live in Houston and my tank had no loss during the power outages last week. The battery backup is only supposed to provide oxygenation in case of a power failure. Resistance heaters we use take so much power running them on a battery is a lost cause. The idea that you must have 100AH of battery backup is just silly. For the cost a 100AH lithium battery, you can buy an automatic battery backup and a generator that will run your entire tank plus a lot more in your house.

Just because you live in Houston doesn’t attest that your 1 Gyre pump brought you through this recent storm. There were several people in Houston that never lost power or they merely had “rolling” outages and the power was off/on throughout the day. I didn’t have power at all for 5 days. Zero. Heaters are extremely important and if you don’t have them a lot of corals will absolutely die. Some corals can survive lower temps, but most people w/o power experienced temps in the 30-40’s in their homes for 3-5 days. Just because you’re not set up to run heaters for more than a few hours doesn’t mean that I’m not. So it’s not a lost cause for me. Speak for yourself. I plan for longterm power outages with heater power in winter weather. I plan for hurricane season as well. I have power Inverters and a Honda generator on standby at all times. I’ve been through enough to know better. In your video 10 months ago you made it clear that you’ve never actually experienced an outage with your tank, but now you’re telling me how to get through an outage. Please fill us in on what species of corals and fish load was able to survive 4 days of 30 - 40 degree temps inside your home on 1 single Gyre pump? Any Acropora would have been white as the snow. Please do share the pics.

 

[Saltyreef]

One gyre pump? Lol. We just had a lot of reefers in Texas loose their whole tanks due to their battery backups dying within a few hours and several of them were dead on start up. A Power Inverter with 100AH LiFePO4 battery will SMOKE your 7AH lead acid battery by a long run. 4 days with one gyre pump would not have been enough in Texas last week. Your tank would have died. You would have needed several heaters which really draw the watts.

You do know batteries need to be exercised to maintain longevity and reliability right?
Simply plugging it in with a constant trickle charge and never discharging them WILL shorten their life.
Also, not meant to be forgotten about for years. Should test runtime every 4 to 6 months then charge em back up

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

battery backups don’t last long enough. Waste of money.

Get a Power inverter and run off your car battery or get a real battery- LiFePO4 Lithium with 100AH

I have power Inverters and a Honda generator on standby at all times.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Do you need a ~$700 100AH lithium battery, or a generator?

The idea that 100 amp hours of battery backup will get anyone through 5 days of no power in freezing temperatures is not living in reality. A single 500 watt heater draws ~40 amps 12v DC and will drain 100 amps of battery in a couple of hours. That doesn't include running anything for water movement. So clearly you either need a better backup plan or roll the dice it doesn't happen to you.

The point of a battery backup is not to run your entire tank for a week. It's to keep the water moving to provide gas exchange to the tanks live stock. That will get you through the night or some time you're away from your tank until you can provide more attention. That's all. For that intended job, a wave maker on a lead acid battery is gold. Even an air stone on a D cell battery is infinitely better than nothing and it is really BAD advice to say that's a waste of money.

 

[Reefahholic]

You do know batteries need to be exercised to maintain longevity and reliability right?
Simply plugging it in with a constant trickle charge and never discharging them WILL shorten their life.
Also, not meant to be forgotten about for years. Should test runtime every 4 to 6 months then charge em back up

Yeah, I think that’s the problem with a lot of battery backup owners. They don’t do any tests or maintain the battery properly.

 

[Reefahholic]

Now you're contradicting yourself. Do you need a ~$700 100AH lithium battery, or a generator?

The idea that 100 amp hours of battery backup will get anyone through 5 days of no power in freezing temperatures is not living in reality. A single 500 watt heater draws ~40 amps 12v DC and will drain 100 amps of battery in a couple of hours. That doesn't include running anything for water movement. So clearly you either need a better backup plan or roll the dice it doesn't happen to you.

The point of a battery backup is not to run your entire tank for a week. It's to keep the water moving to provide gas exchange to the tanks live stock. That will get you through the night or some time you're away from your tank until you can provide more attention. That's all. For that intended job, a wave maker on a lead acid battery is gold. Even an air stone on a D cell battery is infinitely better than nothing and it is really BAD advice to say that's a waste of money.

You never answered my questions or posted pics. Which corals survived this 4 day blackout with 30-40 degree temps since you failed to run heaters. What fish survived it?

Who said I was running 500W heaters? Even if I was my setup can easily handle it.

I think you’re giving the bad advice telling people to run DINK batteries with 1 gyre pump and NO HEATERS.

Having BOTH quality batteries and a back up generator will get them through the outage (and extended outages) when the gas is completely gone in 24-48 hrs in most cases.

 

[Reefahholic]

Still waiting to hear which of your fish and corals survived your 4 day power outage with 1 Gyre pump and no heaters. You said you were in Houston right? Those of us in Houston w/o power for 4+ days all had internal house temperatures down in the 40’s and 30’s. Basically 90% of everything died if you didn’t heat the tank. I find it extremely odd how you were the only guy around who’s fish and corals survived in these temps w/o heaters with tank running on 1 Gyre pump, but everybody else in Houston w/o power for 4 days with no heat lost about everything in their tank. From my experience, fish do not live long in temps below 60 degrees. Corals can tolerate a little lower (depending on species) but not much and not for that long.

 

[TerraFerma]

If your talking multi day outages - you will need a generator, deep cycle battery and an inverter. Run the generator in the day to charge the battery (and run things in the house), shut it off at night for the neighbors. Make sure to get a big enough inverter and not an el cheapo one.

 

[Saltyreef]

The point of a battery backup is not to run your entire tank for a week.

Wouldnt it be nice to be able to though?

 

[Reefahholic]

If your talking multi day outages - you will need a generator, deep cycle battery and an inverter. Run the generator in the day to charge the battery (and run things in the house), shut it off at night for the neighbors. Make sure to get a big enough inverter and not an el cheapo one.

That’s exactly what I do. I charge my inverter battery on the Generator when needed and also on my truck alternator when gas is gone. A power inverter that’s about 1000W is a great size. The last storm I used a 400W and it did pretty well. I prefer a little larger though. ;-)