Done with controllers

[malacoda]

I with jda. For me, there's just no real benefit to a controller ... it's just a in shift tasks, such as setup a probe and/or device and read an app versus pull out a Salifert kit.

Not to mention the added anxiety fueled by the constant 'need' to check an app.

Other than the app to set my lights, and inkbird-type controllers for the heaters, I'd rather just do things manually ... which really isn't much effort or work.

I've also quite comfortably left my tank on analogue-auto-pilot (e.g. no controller) ... with the simple addition of a few Eheim auto-feeders ... for up to a month at a time on several occasions without any stress or troubling incidents.

 

[n2585722]

I’m going to be honest- I can’t say with 100% certainty I know what that means. However I did try adding a google WiFi access point in the fish room. It would not let me configure as 2.4ghz but it was about 5 feet from the controller itself.

Here is a link to the online manual where they talk about setting up an access point https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/wifi-constantly-dropping/ . They even have one they suggest. It is not alway distance since things can block a wifi signal in your house. Water happens to be one of those things that will block a wifi signal. Also the issue with the wifi devices like the power strips could be either the 5ghz and 2.4ghz channels have the same name and password. Some router especially MESH networks will switch device to the 5ghz channel. The wifi strips can communicate at 5ghz but not the controllers. So if the mesh network were to switch your wifi power strip then the controller would loose communication with the power strips. Another thing some routers do is look for devices communicating with each other on the network. In noticed it will block it since it sees it as a threat. That can be turned off on some routers. A separate access point would eliminate the issue with the wifi strips getting on the 5ghz channel since the controller and wifi strips are on an access point and the access point is wired to the router. It would not help if your router is blocking the communication though.

 

[E.intheC]

Here is a link to the online manual where they talk about setting up an access point https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/wifi-constantly-dropping/ . They even have one they suggest. It is not alway distance since things can block a wifi signal in your house. Water happens to be one of those things that will block a wifi signal. Also the issue with the wifi devices like the power strips could be either the 5ghz and 2.4ghz channels have the same name and password. Some router especially MESH networks will switch device to the 5ghz channel. The wifi strips can communicate at 5ghz but not the controllers. So if the mesh network were to switch your wifi power strip then the controller would loose communication with the power strips. Another thing some routers do is look for devices communicating with each other on the network. In noticed it will block it since it sees it as a threat. That can be turned off on some routers. A separate access point would eliminate the issue with the wifi strips getting on the 5ghz channel since the controller and wifi strips are on an access point and the access point is wired to the router. It would not help if your router is blocking the communication though.

Thank you for this. I am going to give the controller one last shot and will use an access point. Luckily I can connect to my router via Ethernet cable so that should add some stability.

 

[CBonito]

Thank you for this. I am going to give the controller one last shot and will use an access point. Luckily I can connect to my router via Ethernet cable so that should add some stability.

If you can do that, you should. That's my plan, though wifi for me hasn't been an issue. I've always preferred a cable connection.

 

[n2585722]

Thank you for this. I am going to give the controller one last shot and will use an access point. Luckily I can connect to my router via Ethernet cable so that should add some stability.

When you get the access point setup you will have to setup the wifi credentials in the controllers and pair any wifi devices again but use replace and replace with the same device. Make sure the device you have the app on and using to do this is also on the access point until you get them setup and paired again.

 

[BOYERZ]

I don't use a controller, never have never will, I like simplicity. Been away from the hobby for 10 years ish, new tank is 7 months. With all the new stuff out I didn't see the need, lights with apps dc pumps etc. Mind is blown!

 

[snackpack]

Lots of people complaining about devices only having 2.4ghz WiFi.

Why do you care about 5ghz for these devices? Do you know?

5ghz is higher bandwidth, lower range.
2.4ghz is lower bandwidth, higher range.

In the beginning 5ghz was the holy grail due to less channel congestion. Now every household is broadcasting 5ghz. The only saving grace to the interference is that the signal doesn't travel as far. If you've got the ability to, run a radio scan on your router and see just now uncongested 5ghz really is.. or isn't.

To the point at hand - your controllers are consuming so little bandwidth and air time that if they were to drop off your network, you wouldn't even notice. For IoT devices there's absolutely nothing wrong with 2.4ghz. I actually prefer it, as it keeps those devices off the frequency that's built for speed.

Stop complaining about 2.4ghz just because you see other people complaining. If you've got an issue with devices not connecting, check your network gear before you decide that your controller is junk.

 

[E.intheC]

I’m complaining because it doesn’t connect. ‍Simple as that. Coralvue specifically says their gear doesn’t work well with mesh routers or 5ghz. That’s it.

You can’t get upset with people for being frustrated with expensive equipment that doesn’t work. It’s unreasonable to expect the average hobbyist to be fluent in IT related protocols to get a controller to perform basic functions, or with a $100 adapter that has the express purpose of connecting your equipment to the WiFi network to… not connect to the WiFi network. Lol.

 

[n2585722]

I’m complaining because it doesn’t connect. ‍Simple as that. Coralvue specifically says their gear doesn’t work well with mesh routers or 5ghz. That’s it.

You can’t get upset with people for being frustrated with expensive equipment that doesn’t work. It’s unreasonable to expect the average hobbyist to be fluent in IT related protocols to get a controller to perform basic functions, or with a $100 adapter that has the express purpose of connecting your equipment to the WiFi network to… not connect to the WiFi network. Lol.

The main issue with MESH is the wifi power strips are basically off the shelf Tuya protocol strips. They can communicate at 5ghz but if they connect to 5ghz they cannot communicate with the controllers that are at 2.4ghz only. As far as AC outlets go you can use the XP8 which is a controller and will eliminate the 5ghz issue. The XP8 also has power monitoring for each outlet that the wifi strips do not have. It is a wired connection between the XP8 and the other controllers so they will continue to communicate with each other regardless of wifi or internet. To do this it requires at least one terminator and a bus cable the right length to go between the XP8 and the other controller. Two terminators are all that will be needed per collective but on small collectives it will work with just one. You also have to create a collective in the app once the controllers are hooked up. I use the XP8's for critical things and the wifi power strips for less critical things such as lighting. There are quite a few people in the Hydros facebook group that are willing to help and answer questions on getting things setup. If you are not a member you might want to join. Here is a link https://m.facebook.com/groups/hydrosgroup/?ref=share . I know that wifi settings do get complicated to someone that does not normally deal with them. The last controller I had you had to setup a ddns address which requires getting a ddns service. You also have setup settings directly in your router so when it get a call from that service it knows were to direct it on the local network. So the Hydros is easier than what I was used to. To get around the ddns the Hydros uses a cloud service and the controllers periodically check in to that cloud service so the app goes through that service to connect to the controllers. So no matter where you are if you have access to the internet and the controllers have access to the internet the app will work and connect. Hydros uses the Amazon cloud service I beleive.

 

[rtparty]

Lots of people complaining about devices only having 2.4ghz WiFi.

Why do you care about 5ghz for these devices? Do you know?

5ghz is higher bandwidth, lower range.
2.4ghz is lower bandwidth, higher range.

In the beginning 5ghz was the holy grail due to less channel congestion. Now every household is broadcasting 5ghz. The only saving grace to the interference is that the signal doesn't travel as far. If you've got the ability to, run a radio scan on your router and see just now uncongested 5ghz really is.. or isn't.

To the point at hand - your controllers are consuming so little bandwidth and air time that if they were to drop off your network, you wouldn't even notice. For IoT devices there's absolutely nothing wrong with 2.4ghz. I actually prefer it, as it keeps those devices off the frequency that's built for speed.

Stop complaining about 2.4ghz just because you see other people complaining. If you've got an issue with devices not connecting, check your network gear before you decide that your controller is junk.

Pretty simple why people complain there isn’t 5ghz. Many routers today are mesh and some do not allow you to pick between 2.4 and 5ghz. Adding a WiFi chip that allows both is beyond cheap for these companies to do.

Why should someone have to change their entire network because of a single item (aquarium controller in this case) because a company is too cheap and lazy to give a better experience?

To go one step farther, why not just include an Ethernet port as well? It’s pennies to add one. The whole “IP rating” line of reasoning is just an excuse.

One of the top priorities when creating an item for people is to make sure it’s user friendly. If that means simply including both 2.4 and 5ghz, a company should be doing that. The $5 Chinese smart switches can do it just fine. It’s not complicated or expensive.

 

[ErikVR]

No controller here but Red Sea wifi equipment has been working flawless here.

 

[E.intheC]

To add - my intent is not to bash the Hydros.
The above “WiFi adaptor for $100” was for the Kessil WiFi adaptor.

 

[RichReef]

Over the years I’ve always had a controller- it started with a reef keeper, then apex, another “new” apex, and now hydros.

I’m done . So many connection/wifi/Bluetooth issues with all brands except for the RK. Also one point of failure makes me nervous.

Does anyone else run their reef without a controller? Kasa power strips and timers are where it’s at for me..

I stopped using my Apex. Honestly it was more work having it and it creates more points of possible failure. I can understand needing one if you are away from your tank for periods of time.

I try to keep the least amount of electronics on my system as possible. Especially ones that can cause a crash.

 

[reefkeeping]

Yeah, its because they use the literal cheapest wireless adapters in their gear. This isn't unique to reefkeeping, most IoT junk has this problem. Even home smart lights, Wyze-type security cameras, etc. are generally 2.4ghz only. Manufacturers will argue that this is because 2.4ghz has better range and these devices don't require the higher data rates 5ghz is capable of, but the truth is that they're just cheap.

Depending on what wireless router/access points you have, there are some granular controls that might help:

- Make sure you have a dedicated 2.4ghz-only SSID broadcasting (rather than one SSID that does both).

- On your 2.4ghz-only SSID, set the minimum basic rate (MBR) to 6mpbs. Some equipment is so cheap that they won't properly negotiate modern data rates. Note that lowering the MBR may affect performance of other 2.4ghz devices.

- If you have an Android phone (or Windows laptop) grab a free tool like Ubiquiti's WifiMan and make sure your 2.4ghz network is operating on a channel that isn't overlapping with your neighbors. Note that only channels 1,6, and 11 are available on 2.4ghz networks so you may not be able to avoid this. But if your neighbor has their home wireless on Ch1 and your network is also on Ch1, for example, you can run into something called Co-Channel Interference. The TL;DR is that this is bad and you want to avoid it.

- On your 2.4ghz network, set the Guard Interval to "Long" instead of "Short". Cheap wireless adapters are bad at handling multipathing and the longer interval may assist with reducing interference from the multipathing effect on such devices.

 

[Alexraptor]

For my latest setup I deliberately chose Kessil Lights and a Kessil Spectral Controller over Maxspect JUMP LED's, just to avoid having to control the things with a dang APP! No Wifi, No Bluetooth, just a good old hardline connection, and if the controller craps out I can still operate the lights by way of purely analog controls.

 

[theatrus]

Why should someone have to change their entire network because of a single item (aquarium controller in this case) because a company is too cheap and lazy to give a better experience?

Sadly with WiFi standards this is a must. Especially older devices. It’s a shared airtime medium so the network runs only as well as the oldest junk device. I specifically run a “IoT junk” network on dedicated APs, and turn off any new features because the situation is terrible. It’s not just aquarium equipment.

Depending on what wireless router/access points you have, there are some granular controls that might help:

This list reflects basically what I’ve done. Also any fast roaming options cause havoc - most cheap devices can’t transition BSSIDs at all.

The network rides on its own vlan, and even has its own v6 network since I can do PD.

Things like the Apex could do a lot better if they got out of the MCU embedded world and switched to a SoM on Linux - whatever embedded WiFi stack they run on the STM32 is extremely suspect. Also all the hardware is extremely cheap - spent the budget on injection molding funny plastic shapes.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Then there was that time when I was able to control my ATO 2000 miles away because my ATO sensor failed. Setting up a way to monitor your tanks when you are away can be a lifesaver for your tanks. I even had a marine biologist take care of my tanks while I was away. Left him with 4 pages of instructions and twice as many pages of "what if" flow charts. Because of my controller I was able to deal with the situation remotely.

 

[Rp8]

Run my 180 w/o controller.

 

[Uncle99]

Simple heat controller only.
Discontinued controller years ago as it was the source of my problems, including those WiFi plug outlets that came on and off without any freakin reason.
5 years running now, simple and easy.

 

[theatrus]

Then there was that time when I was able to control my ATO 2000 miles away because my ATO sensor failed. Setting up a way to monitor your tanks when you are away can be a lifesaver for your tanks. I even had a marine biologist take care of my tanks while I was away. Left him with 4 pages of instructions and twice as many pages of "what if" flow charts. Because of my controller I was able to deal with the situation remotely.

I’ve had similar situations. I run certain equipment in a part-time mode: for example, my Ca reactor over produces but I don’t run the CO2 in the morning hours, which gives me the ability to adjust output for Alk demand when I’m traveling by moving the schedule around. The Trident, despite its flaws, gives me a good indicator of demand level and I spot check it.

There is very little on an attached controller for me, and I’m happy with that situation. But I love monitoring: give me all the automated data.