Done with controllers

[BeanAnimal]

As for controllers - I wouldn't touch an APEX anything with a 10 foot pole partly due to its heavy reliance on hosted services. The same goes for many pumps and other products in this hobby.

GHL is bad enough with their reporting dashboard being tied to hosted services, but at least I have full control and probe outputs locally with no internet connection.

 

[n2585722]

No controllers on my tank, I felt like I needed to purchase the APEX but I think it’s more so from everyone else posting about having the best or what’s needed to run a reef tank.
I’m still on the fence about it. A lot of things I feel are unnecessary until a problem occurs

Just make sure and have a backup. On my reservoirs I have a low level sensor which will trigger a refill and have a full sensor to stop the refill. I also have a float valve on the refill line from the RODI unit. I also have a maximum on time set in my Hydros so if the RODI is on that long it will turn it off and send an alert. I also have a leak detector at the reservoirs. I have a leak detector in the stand of my tank. The stand was designed to hold a couple of gallons of water in the bottom where the leak detector. A leak in the overflow or sump will end up in the bottom of the stand. That will send a alert along with an audible alert on the controllers. Even my heaters which are normally controlled by the Hydros have their own thermostats set 3 degrees higher than the Hydros setting. I also have power monitoring on the heater outputs. I have 2 50 watt heaters so I have the limits set at 45 to 55 watts if it gets out of that range when the output is on it sends an alert. But the heater thermostat is there if it get too hot.

 

[n2585722]

This is simply poor design and would indicate that the devices work in mesh mode and not client mode, otherwise band and/or SSID would not matter, the underlying TCP/IP subnet would be all that mattered.

Such setups (a network within a network) also create larger issues due to route cost (spanning tree) issues (SONOS is a network nightmare because of this).

The wifi devices are Tuya protocol wifi strips and outlets that are made by someone other than Hydros. I have not tried it but you can get non Hydros wifi strips and pair them with the Hydros as long as the outputs have the same arrangement as the Hydros ones do. I use the XP8 and drive ports for critical control and the wifi strips for non critical function where being on or off for an extended period would not crash my tank. The drive ports and XP8 outlets are on the controllers themselves. Controllers in a collective have to be connected with bus cables so wifi is not the form of communication between the controllers in the collective. A CAN type communication is used between the controllers. So once setup they will continue to run as they were setup to do without internet or wifi. If you loose wifi the only thing you loose is the wifi strips, plugs and wifi feeder. ai was without internet for 5 days straight in February and had no issue with the controller other than the only communication with it was via my cell phone using a mobile connection and bluetooth to the controllers.

 

[14 foot reef]

I'm 100% in the other camp of almost all of these posts. I wouldn't run my system ever again without monitoring and control. My full apex system and network couldn't be anymore reliable than it is. I know every little thing instantly, my system is 23 years old and 850 gallons, it was a fight and battle for 19 years with very little success. Then came along the Apex addition to my system. The reef has never ever had this kind of success. Maybe it's just me, but never ever again without monitoring and control.

 

[bakbay]

I'm 100% in the other camp of almost all of these posts. I wouldn't run my system ever again without monitoring and control. My full apex system and network couldn't be anymore reliable than it is. I know every little thing instantly, my system is 23 years old and 850 gallons, it was a fight and battle for 19 years with very little success. Then came along the Apex addition to my system. The reef has never ever had this kind of success. Maybe it's just me, but never ever again without monitoring and control.

THAT is a very cool setup - I'm super jealous!

I'm with you actually. I run 3 tanks+frag tank and each system has an Apex & Trident. I've done timers and switches before but now everything in my tanks can be automated. For me, having remote management while away from home (which is frequent in my case) is the best thing that ever happened to this hobby. Another beautiful thing is trend analysis -- I can see temp, alk, ca, and pH over time on my phone 24/7. I will never go back to non-controllers again.

I run a mesh Wi-Fi network at home and yes, I understand the challenges with 5Ghz vs 2.4Ghz. My main tank is very stable since it's 20ft away from my main access point; but the other tanks are in the garage, very far away so I might need more access points. If people have issues connecting at 5Ghz, try moving the device you want to set up to a remote area of the house and negotiate at 2.4Ghz. Once paired, move it back to your tank's location -- it should connect & maintain at 2.4Ghz frequency going forward. It happened to me and I've have been stable ever since. Most of the time, it's not the controller's issue -- it's your home network! Good luck.

 

[d2mini]

I've been using GHL for 12 years now.
I'm far from a "power user", I'm happy using it for the basics, but other than the occasional connection issue it has NEVER let me down.

 

[14 foot reef]

THAT is a very cool setup - I'm super jealous!

I'm with you actually. I run 3 tanks+frag tank and each system has an Apex & Trident. I've done timers and switches before but now everything in my tanks can be automated. For me, having remote management while away from home (which is frequent in my case) is the best thing that ever happened to this hobby. Another beautiful thing is trend analysis -- I can see temp, alk, ca, and pH over time on my phone 24/7. I will never go back to non-controllers again.

I run a mesh Wi-Fi network at home and yes, I understand the challenges with 5Ghz vs 2.4Ghz. My main tank is very stable since it's 20ft away from my main access point; but the other tanks are in the garage, very far away so I might need more access points. If people have issues connecting at 5Ghz, try moving the device you want to set up to a remote area of the house and negotiate at 2.4Ghz. Once paired, move it back to your tank's location -- it should connect & maintain at 2.4Ghz frequency going forward. It happened to me and I've have been stable ever since. Most of the time, it's not the controller's issue -- it's your home network! Good luck.

Most of the time, it's not the controller's issue -- it's your home network! Good luck.

I wanted to write this in my post so bad, but I didn't want to start a fight with IT wannabe's. I think 85+ of peoples problems with controllers are user error not controller error.
YES their are controller problems I'm not saying there aren't but if you approach the companies customer service in a polite and respectful manor, they will all treat you the same and help you through your issues. Yelling and blaming a controller company right off the bat, and posting negative hateful things on the forums, only makes your battle tougher. Give the companies a chance to help you before you drive over them with a bus.

Happy Reefing !!! Reef2Reef really is an amazing group of people, the mentors here are heroes for all of us.

 

[bakbay]

I wanted to write this in my post so bad, but I didn't want to start a fight with IT wannabe's. I think 85+ of peoples problems with controllers are user error not controller error.
YES their are controller problems I'm not saying there aren't but if you approach the companies customer service in a polite and respectful manor, they will all treat you the same and help you through your issues. Yelling and blaming a controller company right off the bat, and posting negative hateful things on the forums, only makes your battle tougher. Give the companies a chance to help you before you drive over them with a bus.

Happy Reefing !!! Reef2Reef really is an amazing group of people, the mentors here are heroes for all of us.

I think that we all are reefing hobbyist and consumers. At the end of the day, we paid for products & services and we expect things to work! I get that -- I honestly do. However, there are technical challenges as aquatic vendors, supporting heterogenous networks, devices, customizations, etc...While I understand that these equipment can be expensive but they are hobby-grade, not lab or industrial grade! Even so, nothing is bullet-proof, fool-proof when it comes to tech. Even the mighty AWS's West and East cloud regions went down for ~10hrs this Monday btw.

We just learn to accept that these reefing controllers are essentially "monitors". If you do rely on them for "control", then factor in your DR/BCP if in case your controller goes down. Personally for me, my Apex can go down and the tank will be fine (my critical Apex ports fail open) -- I just lose visibility. In fact, I can lose power to the whole tank and can go for days. What I'm saying is that don't trust your whole tank on controllers & automations, build enough redundancy for your tank!

Agree, R2R is awesome -- we're here to share challenges, solutions, workarounds, ideas and much more! I think that our feedback to fellow reefers and vendors alike will advance the reefing hobby. Cheers!

 

[E.intheC]

I wanted to write this in my post so bad, but I didn't want to start a fight with IT wannabe's. I think 85+ of peoples problems with controllers are user error not controller error.
YES their are controller problems I'm not saying there aren't but if you approach the companies customer service in a polite and respectful manor, they will all treat you the same and help you through your issues. Yelling and blaming a controller company right off the bat, and posting negative hateful things on the forums, only makes your battle tougher. Give the companies a chance to help you before you drive over them with a bus.

Happy Reefing !!! Reef2Reef really is an amazing group of people, the mentors here are heroes for all of us.

I’m definitely not an IT wannabe, however my general thought is that things that should be easy …. Should be … easy? This is not unique to the aquarium hobby and is probably a “me problem” lol but I have zero patience for that. Why over complicate things in general? Why not just add the option of a 5ghz chip? Or give the option of a hard-wired connection.

If you’re trying to sell a product to reef hobbyists and earn some of the GHL and Neptune market share then your target market should likely be more than “actual IT professionals” right? (To be fair I’ve had issues with GHL dosers and Apex gear connecting also).

Sometimes you can’t rely on customer service - if your equipment won’t work during off-hours you’re likely stuck. I agree that these forums are helpful. But to be honest I don’t have time to mess with something that shouldn’t be complicated in the first place.

I’ve said before. It’s not my router. Dozens upon dozens of other WiFi enabled products that are much cheaper work the first time, every time with the same router. There’s no reason why a multi-100$ controller can’t also work. By their nature controllers should make things easier..

You have a nice tank by the way. I’m glad things are working for you. They aren’t for me