Done with controllers

[FrugalReeferJon]

Been reefing for about 7 years now and never had a controller. A smart plug strip, timers and a webcam is the fanciest I’ve gotten.

 

[bushdoc]

Certainly malfunctioning, crashing apps, Wifi issues and all the electronics surrounding us and requiring constant maintnance and attention is annoying to say at least. I do remember running my powerheads and dosers on mechanical timers, but they would fail eventually too, maybe even sooner then electronic timer.
It seem that "Electronic Burnout Syndrome" is spreading to saltwater aquarium hobby, but what is the cure?

 

[theatrus]

Been reefing for about 7 years now and never had a controller. A smart plug strip, timers and a webcam is the fanciest I’ve gotten.

I’d argue a smart plug strip and timers are controllers. Most people would just use their controllers as a timer anyway :)

IMHO distributed controllers are a better solution anyway.

 

[theatrus]

Certainly malfunctioning, crashing apps, Wifi issues and all the electronics surrounding us and requiring constant maintnance and attention is annoying to say at least. I do remember running my powerheads and dosers on mechanical timers, but they would fail eventually too, maybe even sooner then electronic timer.
It seem that "Electronic Burnout Syndrome" is spreading to saltwater aquarium hobby, but what is the cure?

As with anything, KISS. Use multiple controllers (because you can’t avoid it). Insist on manual control buttons or knobs. And have backups.

Electronics with controllers are everywhere already. No one actually wants the old style AC single speed power heads, and all modern flow pumps all have controllers. If the only way I could operate one is with a WiFi cloud connection I’d bin it in the trash.

 

[ninjamyst]

I threw my Apex into the trash. There's absolutely no point in paying $$$ for apex. All our equipments already come with their own controllers. $40 inkbird for temperature control. Alexa smart power strip to run whatever schedule I want for fuge light and other stuff.

 

[bushdoc]

I threw my Apex into the trash. There's absolutely no point in paying $$$ for apex. All our equipments already come with their own controllers. $40 inkbird for temperature control. Alexa smart power strip to run whatever schedule I want for fuge light and other stuff.

Darn it! Is it too late to buy it from you?
Can I do some dumbster diving at your place? ;)
............
You are actually right-10-15 years ago very few LEDs, powerheads, dosers had internal controller, now I also rely on proprietary equipmenmt controllers and less and less on Apex.

 

[nbooks]

Sadly with WiFi standards this is a must. Especially older devices. It’s a shared airtime medium so the network runs only as well as the oldest junk device. I specifically run a “IoT junk” network on dedicated APs, and turn off any new features because the situation is terrible. It’s not just aquarium equipment.

^^^This, spot on.

while consumer networking equipment has all pushed to meet "highest standards" that doesnt work for all old equipment - not at all just hydros. I had intermittent connectivity issues with my DISH dvr and some alexa controlled devices prior to adding hydros.

some routers are being set with low end data rate limits that exclude the max capable rate of older devices...but only some routers can be adjusted.

the hydros line of "must use 2.4ghz" is too generic imho.

 

[n2585722]

^^^This, spot on.

while consumer networking equipment has all pushed to meet "highest standards" that doesnt work for all old equipment - not at all just hydros. I had intermittent connectivity issues with my DISH dvr and some alexa controlled devices prior to adding hydros.

some routers are being set with low end data rate limits that exclude the max capable rate of older devices...but only some routers can be adjusted.

the hydros line of "must use 2.4ghz" is too generic imho.

I think the reason they went with 2.4ghz only on the controllers is range. Since they are around large bodies of water the extra range can come in handy. I know I have a Ring door bell camera that will work at 5ghz so I tried it on 5ghz. I had so many disconnections that I had to put it back on 2.4ghz. On 2.4ghz I do not get any disconnect alerts unless my internet service is down. It was within 30ft of the router so to me 5ghz is not very reliable at all. I had the same issue with other cameras located outside. So I am not a big fan of 5ghz but I don't stream anything other than youtube videos. The 5ghz channel only seems to work in the room the router is in so all my devices are normally on 2.4ghz anyway.

 

[theatrus]

I think the reason they went with 2.4ghz only on the controllers is range. Since they are around large bodies of water the extra range can come in handy. I know I have a Ring door bell camera that will work at 5ghz so I tried it on 5ghz. I had so many disconnections that I had to put it back on 2.4ghz. On 2.4ghz I do not get any disconnect alerts unless my internet service is down. It was within 30ft of the router so to me 5ghz is not very reliable at all. I had the same issue with other cameras located outside. So I am not a big fan of 5ghz but I don't stream anything other than youtube videos. The 5ghz channel only seems to work in the room the router is in so all my devices are normally on 2.4ghz anyway.

The real reason is cost.

Two frequency bands is twice the certification cost. For every country. Have to deal with DFS. Two antennas. The list goes on.

Also the cheap embedded modules are 2.4 only. Once an ESP32 with 5GHz lands you’ll see more of it. Currently the C5 was announced but it’s not available. The C6 is designed as a 2.4G only radio, instead focusing on BLE and Thread coexistence.

 

[E.intheC]

I think the reason they went with 2.4ghz only on the controllers is range. Since they are around large bodies of water the extra range can come in handy. I know I have a Ring door bell camera that will work at 5ghz so I tried it on 5ghz. I had so many disconnections that I had to put it back on 2.4ghz. On 2.4ghz I do not get any disconnect alerts unless my internet service is down. It was within 30ft of the router so to me 5ghz is not very reliable at all. I had the same issue with other cameras located outside. So I am not a big fan of 5ghz but I don't stream anything other than youtube videos. The 5ghz channel only seems to work in the room the router is in so all my devices are normally on 2.4ghz anyway.

I have ring cameras as well. Same network as the hydros. Zero issues.

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

No controllers for me.i have an inkbird for heater & fans & my doser & lights are through reefbeat app.all my other kit is through smart plugs which I can set to pause or on off through alexa.all testing is done "old school" with hanna or salifert.

 

[n2585722]

I have ring cameras as well. Same network as the hydros. Zero issues.

I don't have an issue unless I set it up on the 5ghz channel. I think it defaults to 2.4ghz. I have the 5ghz channel setup with a different name so it does not interfere with any devices that need 2.4ghz. I actually had the 5ghz turned off for about a month and no one at the house ever noticed an issue.

 

[Justin02]

I had a GE branded "works with google home" smart plug stick on this weekend while out of town. It crashed my tank with a soda ash overdose. I am not exactly sure how it happened but it has wrecked my trust in anything Wi-Fi driven for dosing. I was canoeing out of network coverage with the device (cell phone) I used to set up the automation but apparently that should not matter. Upon entering network coverage I got an hours old text from my wife - "the fish tank looks like a winter wonderland".

Any recommendations for a reliable digital timer that can be set with 1-minute accuracy?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's revisit the 2.4 GHz and 5GHz misinformation.

Like it or not 2.4 GHz is the IoT standard (for many reasons) from signal strength and power consumption to radio cost.

You do not need a DEDICATED SSID for 2.4 GHz as long as your IoT devices are not dual band. A device with a 2.4 GHz radio can't see or be interfered with by the 5 GHz radio. Anybody (including vendors) who tell you that you need a dedicated 2.4 GHz network for a 2.4 GHz only device have no idea what they are talking about. PERIOD.

Where the problem comes in is with tiny dual band (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) enabled IoT devices with their crappy little antennas and an access point broadcasting the same SSID on both bands. The little IoT device with its tiny antenna, cheap chipset and bare bones firmware... will ungracefully band hop back and forth from 2.4 GHz to 5 GHz as signal levels fluctuate due to interference, wreaking havoc on your connection to the device. This band steering "flap" is part of the reason that most IoT devices are SINGLE band.

 

[jerses]

I just moved and went the no controller route, just the manual control on the vortech. The best purchase i made was an individually controlled surge protector (Amazon product ASIN B075NZLYB7). Manual switches always work.

 

[n2585722]

Let's revisit the 2.4 GHz and 5GHz misinformation.

Like it or not 2.4 GHz is the IoT standard (for many reasons) from signal strength and power consumption to radio cost.

You do not need a DEDICATED SSID for 2.4 GHz as long as your IoT devices are not dual band. A device with a 2.4 GHz radio can't see or be interfered with by the 5 GHz radio. Anybody (including vendors) who tell you that you need a dedicated 2.4 GHz network for a 2.4 GHz only device have no idea what they are talking about. PERIOD.

Where the problem comes in is with tiny dual band (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) enabled IoT devices with their crappy little antennas and an access point broadcasting the same SSID on both bands. The little IoT device with its tiny antenna, cheap chipset and bare bones firmware... will ungracefully band hop back and forth from 2.4 GHz to 5 GHz as signal levels fluctuate due to interference, wreaking havoc on your connection to the device. This band steering "flap" is part of the reason that most IoT devices are SINGLE band.

The issue with dual band with Hydros is the controllers are not dual band but the wifi strips and plugs are. If the wifi strips and plugs connect at 5ghz they quit communicating with the 2.4ghz controllers and that causes issues. The easiest fix is to rename the 5ghz channel to a different name than the 2.4ghz. On some routers you cannot set them to different names. The way around it is a access point with a different name than the normal wifi that is 2.4ghz only for the Hydros controllers and wifi strips.

 

[MnFish1]

Over the years I’ve always had a controller- it started with a reef keeper, then apex, another “new” apex, and now hydros.

I’m done . So many connection/wifi/Bluetooth issues with all brands except for the RK. Also one point of failure makes me nervous.

Does anyone else run their reef without a controller? Kasa power strips and timers are where it’s at for me..

Yes - and find it much easier. After 2 failures - I use a plain surge suppressor - and use the 'controller' - just to measure pH and Temp. But the controller does not control anything.

 

[n2585722]

I had a GE branded "works with google home" smart plug stick on this weekend while out of town. It crashed my tank with a soda ash overdose. I am not exactly sure how it happened but it has wrecked my trust in anything Wi-Fi driven for dosing. I was canoeing out of network coverage with the device (cell phone) I used to set up the automation but apparently that should not matter. Upon entering network coverage I got an hours old text from my wife - "the fish tank looks like a winter wonderland".

Any recommendations for a reliable digital timer that can be set with 1-minute accuracy?

I use a Hydros X10 for my dosing but they also have a couple of other dosers that can connect to the Hydros that is less expensive. Just make sure you are using a drive port or a XP8 AC outlet to control the doser unless it is one on the X10. That way you have a direct connection to the controller for the doser instead of wifi. The Hydros controller will work without wifi and internet once it is setup and running. It will not be happy without it but will continue to function as it was setup until the connection is restored.

 

[hexcolor reef]

Over the years I’ve always had a controller- it started with a reef keeper, then apex, another “new” apex, and now hydros.

I’m done . So many connection/wifi/Bluetooth issues with all brands except for the RK. Also one point of failure makes me nervous.

Does anyone else run their reef without a controller? Kasa power strips and timers are where it’s at for me..

No controllers on my tank, I felt like I needed to purchase the APEX but I think it’s more so from everyone else posting about having the best or what’s needed to run a reef tank.
I’m still on the fence about it. A lot of things I feel are unnecessary until a problem occurs

 

[BeanAnimal]

The issue with dual band with Hydros is the controllers are not dual band but the wifi strips and plugs are. If the wifi strips and plugs connect at 5ghz they quit communicating with the 2.4ghz controllers and that causes issues. The easiest fix is to rename the 5ghz channel to a different name than the 2.4ghz. On some routers you cannot set them to different names. The way around it is a access point with a different name than the normal wifi that is 2.4ghz only for the Hydros controllers and wifi strips.

This is simply poor design and would indicate that the devices work in mesh mode and not client mode, otherwise band and/or SSID would not matter, the underlying TCP/IP subnet would be all that mattered.

Such setups (a network within a network) also create larger issues due to route cost (spanning tree) issues (SONOS is a network nightmare because of this).