Dosing Lanthanum Chloride - A Personal Experience

[Dr. Reef]

I think its all in the way of dosing. Prior to LC becoming common and reef manufacturers got products out on the shelf, it was a hit and miss with Seakler products.
In my case, I dont remember exactly, its been decades, but i used to only put few ml of seakler in a gal of rodi water and dose small amounts daily. I did see some tangs breathe heavy if dosed directly in the tank, but by diluting it in a gal of rodi water, that solved the issue.
Never lost fish then and now with shelf products in market like elimi-phos rapid, it can be dosed directly.
According to Tropic Marin, they dont mention using socks or anyother filter at all. They do recommend using skimmer to export bonded phos out of the system. Again using these products as well I have never lost a fish to LC.

Note: I have over 30 tangs in my 500 gal.


Here is what they say off their website.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think its all in the way of dosing. Prior to LC becoming common and reef manufacturers got products out on the shelf, it was a hit and miss with Seakler products.
In my case, I dont remember exactly, its been decades, but i used to only put few ml of seakler in a gal of rodi water and dose small amounts daily. I did see some tangs breathe heavy if dosed directly in the tank, but by diluting it in a gal of rodi water, that solved the issue.
Never lost fish then and now with shelf products in market like elimi-phos rapid, it can be dosed directly.
According to Tropic Marin, they dont mention using socks or anyother filter at all. They do recommend using skimmer to export bonded phos out of the system. Again using these products as well I have never lost a fish to LC.

Note: I have over 30 tangs in my 500 gal.


Here is what they say off their website.

It would be nice to know what is different between folks with tang issues and those without, or even what the mechanism of effect on tangs is. Unfortunately, we do not seem to be there yet that I can discern.

 

[chicago]

perhaps the gills on the tangs are more of the cause and effect. However I can affirm that I lost both tangs, angels and wrasses. I believe depending on the source that you are using, the strength ect might have an impact on the resulting particulates that have to be removed before entering the tank water. Maybe track who has lost fish and when that occurred what was the product used... I used Rx Phosphate remover blue with no issues through a filter sock..... The directions for this product warn about using directly in tank and direct to use a micron sock. When I went to the dyi Seaklear for pools I had issues.. but again I messed up bigtime and did not use a micron filter sock

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

perhaps the gills on the tangs are more of the cause and effect. However I can affirm that I lost both tangs, angels and wrasses. I believe depending on the source that you are using, the strength ect might have an impact on the resulting particulates that have to be removed before entering the tank water. Maybe track who has lost fish and when that occurred what was the product used... I used Rx Phosphate remover blue with no issues through a filter sock..... The directions for this product warn about using directly in tank and direct to use a micron sock. When I went to the dyi Seaklear for pools I had issues.. but again I messed up bigtime and did not use a micron filter sock

I see at least three possibilities for the effect that we cannot at the moment perfectly distinguish.

1. Dissolved lanthanum binds to and impacts the function of fish gills in some way, perhaps creating particulates in situ.

2. Particulate lanthanum phosphate or carbonate or oxide interacts with fish gills in some negative fashion .

3. The effect actually is caused by an impurity, not the lanthanum itself.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I see at least three possibilities for the effect that we cannot at the moment perfectly distinguish.

1. Dissolved lanthanum binds to and impacts the function of fish gills in some way, perhaps creating particulates in situ.

2. Particulate lanthanum phosphate or carbonate or oxide interacts with fish gills in some negative fashion .

3. The effect actually is caused by an impurity, not the lanthanum itself.

From what I understand is, when LC reacts with phosphates it creates very small and sharp dust particles that hurts the gills of some fish. 100 micron will not filter these particles out. Most forums/threads recommend 1-5 micron filter.
When I used to use pool products, I had it goind through 3 stage rodi chambers. Modified to where 1st chamber was just filter floss, 2nd chamber had sand and 3rd again floss before going back out to skimmer.
Those products used to leave a white hard deposit type residue and at some point it would fail the pumps as they got coated with this stuff over time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From what I understand is, when LC reacts with phosphates it creates very small and sharp dust particles that hurts the gills of some fish. 100 micron will not filter these particles out. Most forums/threads recommend 1-5 micron filter.
When I used to use pool products, I had it goind through 3 stage rodi chambers. Modified to where 1st chamber was just filter floss, 2nd chamber had sand and 3rd again floss before going back out to skimmer.
Those products used to leave a white hard deposit type residue and at some point it would fail the pumps as they got coated with this stuff over time.

That may be the case, but some folks have used particulate filters and still had issues, and others used no filters and have no fish issues. It’s perplexing. :)

 

[areefer01]

I see at least three possibilities for the effect that we cannot at the moment perfectly distinguish.

1. Dissolved lanthanum binds to and impacts the function of fish gills in some way, perhaps creating particulates in situ.

2. Particulate lanthanum phosphate or carbonate or oxide interacts with fish gills in some negative fashion .

3. The effect actually is caused by an impurity, not the lanthanum itself.

All plausible I would agree. Having said that one would ask if it is something related to fish gills wouldn't all fish have similar experiences as some reports of tangs in the genus Zebrasoma? I have no opinion.

I know hobbyist have discussed this, you as well, back on reef central in the early 2000's. It reads that those with the most success used a bit of finesse when applying the product rather than using a hammer.

By hammer I mean taking reef/hobby badged product, reading the instructions (take phosphate Rx), calculate drops, and apply directly into the sump, display, return, and have the cloudy mess circulate and resolve on its own.

By finesse I mean dilution, filter socks, skimmer injection, or by other means of reducing or limiting the particulates/cloud effect.

This is more or less my approach when my phosphates get close to 2 ppm. I mix 5 ml of SeaKlear to 1 litre of rodi water as my product. I will then take 10 ml of that and add to a litre of rodi and dose over 8 hours into a 10 micro sock in front of my skimmer intake. I've do not see any particulate by doing this although it still may be present. Basically what we talked about in 2008 over on RC as that seemed, at the time, to be the general recommendation when apply it.

Dilution, filter media, and skimmer all seem to be one common factor of safe application.

Edit: in my opinion.

 

[JGT]

I dose highly diluted mixture of Phosban-L into a 5 micron sock that sits in a 200 micron sock before my skimmer and have a fairly dense sponge before the return chamber and while fine for my fish, definitely kills my snails.