Dosing Praziquantel (PZQ)

[TylerHaworth]

It's been five days so the third dose just went in. Hope this is working.

Planning on a fourth round in five more days.

 

[Bronco765]

Is there a way to know if the bacteria ate the Prazi before it was effective?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Is there a way to know if the bacteria ate the Prazi before it was effective?

Nope - that requires HPLC in a lab. All we can do is observe the results and try to make an educated guess as to when prazi becomes degraded.

 

[Bronco765]

Is there a way to know if the bacteria ate the Prazi before it was effective?

Nope - that requires HPLC in a lab. All we can do is observe the results and try to make an educated guess as to when prazi becomes degraded.

The Semilarvatus looks a lot better today so it’s on the mend.

 

[LeftyReefer]

I've got a few fish in QT right now, that are just about done... They've been in copper power for 30 days and they have one more round of prazi to go.. 2 rounds of prazi have been done, 8 days apart.

I've always used the liquid prazipro in the past, but this time I've been using the prazi powder. (prazicleanse)
I will say, the powdered prazi seems much better than the prazipro as far as (not) feeding/causing
bacterial blooms. Every time I have used prazipro in the past, within a day or so, the tank is always cloudy and the fish seemed stressed.
I saw no such thing using the powder version. I never saw any type of bacterial bloom or cloudiness using the powdered prazi. Fish did not seem as stressed during the prazi treatments either.

I did have to use a fine mesh net like Jay suggested, to get it dispersed, but it actually wasn't difficult at all.

I also like that the Fritz Prazicleanse packets are pre-dosed for 20 gallons, which is great because I use a 20G QT tank. I'll be sticking with the powdered prazi from now on.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I've got a few fish in QT right now, that are just about done... They've been in copper power for 30 days and they have one more round of prazi to go.. 2 rounds of prazi have been done, 8 days apart.

I've always used the liquid prazipro in the past, but this time I've been using the prazi powder. (prazicleanse)
I will say, the powdered prazi seems much better than the prazipro as far as (not) feeding/causing
bacterial blooms. Every time I have used prazipro in the past, within a day or so, the tank is always cloudy and the fish seemed stressed.
I saw no such thing using the powder version. I never saw any type of bacterial bloom or cloudiness using the powdered prazi. Fish did not seem as stressed during the prazi treatments either.

I did have to use a fine mesh net like Jay suggested, to get it dispersed, but it actually wasn't difficult at all.

I also like that the Fritz Prazicleanse packets are pre-dosed for 20 gallons, which is great because I use a 20G QT tank. I'll be sticking with the powdered prazi from now on.

Good to hear - I always use bulk prazi powder, the few times I've used prazi with a solvent, I've had issues. It's just that prazipro is so readily available.....

 

[Bronco765]

I've got a few fish in QT right now, that are just about done... They've been in copper power for 30 days and they have one more round of prazi to go.. 2 rounds of prazi have been done, 8 days apart.

I've always used the liquid prazipro in the past, but this time I've been using the prazi powder. (prazicleanse)
I will say, the powdered prazi seems much better than the prazipro as far as (not) feeding/causing
bacterial blooms. Every time I have used prazipro in the past, within a day or so, the tank is always cloudy and the fish seemed stressed.
I saw no such thing using the powder version. I never saw any type of bacterial bloom or cloudiness using the powdered prazi. Fish did not seem as stressed during the prazi treatments either.

I did have to use a fine mesh net like Jay suggested, to get it dispersed, but it actually wasn't difficult at all.

I also like that the Fritz Prazicleanse packets are pre-dosed for 20 gallons, which is great because I use a 20G QT tank. I'll be sticking with the powdered prazi from now on.

Good to hear - I always use bulk prazi powder, the few times I've used prazi with a solvent, I've had issues. It's just that prazipro is so readily available.....

If you’re not sure it’s gill flukes or Neonendenia flukes which would be best for the dosing schedule, 5 or 8 days?

 

[LeftyReefer]

If you’re not sure it’s gill flukes or Neonendenia flukes which would be best for the dosing schedule, 5 or 8 days?

I've just been using the standard intervals as recommended in Jay's current QT protocol thread which calls for prazi every 8 days +/-. My new fish have not shown any signs of having any flukes, so I'm just treating per the QT protocol which calls for prazi on 7-9 day intervals. If I suspected a certain type of fluke I would certainly want to take that into consideration.

 

[Bronco765]

If you’re not sure it’s gill flukes or Neonendenia flukes which would be best for the dosing schedule, 5 or 8 days?

I've just been using the standard intervals as recommended in Jay's current QT protocol thread which calls for prazi every 8 days +/-. My new fish have not shown any signs of having any flukes, so I'm just treating per the QT protocol which calls for prazi on 7-9 day intervals. If I suspected a certain type of fluke I would certainly want to take that into consideration.

I’ve started using the Prazicleanse also. I never liked Prazipro because of the solvent. Did you have to press the Prazicleanse through the net?

 

[LeftyReefer]

I’ve started using the Prazicleanse also. I never liked Prazipro because of the solvent. Did you have to press the Prazicleanse through the net?

Yes. the first time I pressed it through the net into a cup of RODI, and then dumped that into my QT tank.

the 2nd round of prazi, I just pressed it through the net directly into my QT tank and had to mixed it in a little.
both ways seemed to work fine. Although, if you have really stressed fish in your QT, adding it to a cup of RODI first would probably be the easiest way.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

If you’re not sure it’s gill flukes or Neonendenia flukes which would be best for the dosing schedule, 5 or 8 days?

Split the difference at 7 days, but you'll likely need at least three treatments.

 

[JumboShrimp]

What in the world has apparently happened to the 'world supply' of API General Cure? Last night the only way to buy it on Amazon was to buy a multiple-box bundle of about $100's worth... a record high price, per the pricing history... and many other places online and locally seem to be out of it.

I ordered a Fritz product 'equivalent', available in a single box for about $22.00.

 

[davidsman]

I suspect I have flukes, had a royal gammae just up and die after seeming perfectly healthy the day before, that was 2 days ago. Yesterday I saw my leopard wrasse do what I think is "flashing" where he just quickly scraped the side of his body on a rock as he passed, he did it like 4 or 5 times, and did it a few times today, and I noticed my Midas blenny seemingly doing something similar today.


I plan on catching a fish and doing a freshwater dip to check, but both the wrasse and the Midas are the hardest fish to possibly catch in my packed mixed reed tank. My clowns and my Chromis are easier. Now I didn't see the clown scratching, but I did catch her riding my powerhead for the first time today for a good minute or two, that's new.

Can I safely assume all the fish have it, especially the clown, catch her and dip her and expect to see flukes if the wrasse and blenny were flashing?

Also I read some things that put up red flags.

1. Wrasses don't react do well with Prazipro or fresh dips.
2. Invertebres are harmed by Prazipro like fan worms and anemones - both of which I have along with a very large CUC
3. Skimmers go nuts on it, and I can't afford to kill my skimmer because I used co2 scrubber to keep my PH up, it will absolutely crash without it down to 7 and start killing my corals.

Also, I literally have never been able to catch a fish in 20 years!

The thought of doing this treatment and killing 10k worth of corals is killing me.
The alt is catching all 10 of my fish, and without taking everything out of the tank I can't imagine how to do that!

Any chance the fish survive without treatment?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I suspect I have flukes, had a royal gammae just up and die after seeming perfectly healthy the day before, that was 2 days ago. Yesterday I saw my leopard wrasse do what I think is "flashing" where he just quickly scraped the side of his body on a rock as he passed, he did it like 4 or 5 times, and did it a few times today, and I noticed my Midas blenny seemingly doing something similar today.


I plan on catching a fish and doing a freshwater dip to check, but both the wrasse and the Midas are the hardest fish to possibly catch in my packed mixed reed tank. My clowns and my Chromis are easier. Now I didn't see the clown scratching, but I did catch her riding my powerhead for the first time today for a good minute or two, that's new.

Can I safely assume all the fish have it, especially the clown, catch her and dip her and expect to see flukes if the wrasse and blenny were flashing?

Also I read some things that put up red flags.

1. Wrasses don't react do well with Prazipro or fresh dips.
2. Invertebres are harmed by Prazipro like fan worms and anemones - both of which I have along with a very large CUC
3. Skimmers go nuts on it, and I can't afford to kill my skimmer because I used co2 scrubber to keep my PH up, it will absolutely crash without it down to 7 and start killing my corals.

Also, I literally have never been able to catch a fish in 20 years!

The thought of doing this treatment and killing 10k worth of corals is killing me.
The alt is catching all 10 of my fish, and without taking everything out of the tank I can't imagine how to do that!

Any chance the fish survive without treatment?

A few pointers:

Yes - all exposed fish need to be treated for flukes. Some flukes are more host-specific than others, but you cannot really tell. I'm not 100% convinced that you have flukes - grammas do get flukes a LOT, but they will give symptoms prior to death; pale color, scratching, hiding and not eating.

FW dips only screen for one species of fluke, Neobenedenia. The others are too small to be seen without a microscope, and then, they end up so contorted from the dip that it takes a lot of experience to ID them.

Wrasses have high oxygen requirements, they do not always do well with prazi that has been dissolved in a solvent - better to use the powdered prazi formulations with them.

I used to think that worms would be killed by prazi, since it "kills" worm parasites - right? Turns out, prazi just stuns worms and causes the parasitic ones to drop off of the fish. Same thing with feather dusters, they just get stunned.

You'll need to run your skimmer for proper gas exchange, just don't collect the skimmate during the treatment.

Coral loss is rare after a properly done prazi treatment, but don't let the prazi powder settle on delicate corals. I have heard of coral losses, but in viewing those cases, the corals were not in good shape going into the treatment.

 

[davidsman]

A few pointers:

Yes - all exposed fish need to be treated for flukes. Some flukes are more host-specific than others, but you cannot really tell. I'm not 100% convinced that you have flukes - grammas do get flukes a LOT, but they will give symptoms prior to death; pale color, scratching, hiding and not eating.

FW dips only screen for one species of fluke, Neobenedenia. The others are too small to be seen without a microscope, and then, they end up so contorted from the dip that it takes a lot of experience to ID them.

Wrasses have high oxygen requirements, they do not always do well with prazi that has been dissolved in a solvent - better to use the powdered prazi formulations with them.

I used to think that worms would be killed by prazi, since it "kills" worm parasites - right? Turns out, prazi just stuns worms and causes the parasitic ones to drop off of the fish. Same thing with feather dusters, they just get stunned.

You'll need to run your skimmer for proper gas exchange, just don't collect the skimmate during the treatment.

Coral loss is rare after a properly done prazi treatment, but don't let the prazi powder settle on delicate corals. I have heard of coral losses, but in viewing those cases, the corals were not in good shape going into the treatment.

Just an update: Before I could dip them the next morning the female clown that was acting odd (lethargic, began hosting in anemone, she's never touched one the whole year I had her despite training videos and other methods) popped up the next day with symptoms matching velvet or Brooklynella, managed to catch 7 of the 10 fish 1 week in and they are in hospital tank being medicated. Will have to go fallow for 90 days if I ever catch the remaining 3.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just an update: Before I could dip them the next morning the female clown that was acting odd (lethargic, began hosting in anemone, she's never touched one the whole year I had her despite training videos and other methods) popped up the next day with symptoms matching velvet or Brooklynella, managed to catch 7 of the 10 fish 1 week in and they are in hospital tank being medicated. Will have to go fallow for 90 days if I ever catch the remaining 3.

Just to clarify - Fallow periods only need to be 60 days.

What are you using to medicate the fish you’ve caught so far?