Dosing two-part for the first time and I am scared!

[markysgirl]

Hi there,
My tank has been up and running for 7 months now and I have some soft and LPS corals with plans to add some sps later. I test my tank once weekly before water changes and it looks like my alkalinity goes from 7.2 right after a water change to 6.2 at the end of the week before a water change. The Ca level is around 385-395 before water changes.
I realize it's probably time to dose the tank and I want to use two-part.
I am looking at the BRS two-part system but am not sure which powder I should use for Alk.
The pH in my tank has been rock solid and every time I have checked it and has remained at 8.2 so I don't think I want to raise the pH.
So my questions are:
Should I use soda ash or sodium bicarbonate?
What should I look for after I start adding this to the tank, I am terrified I am going to kill everything.
Any other random advice regarding adding two-part for the first time reef keeper would be sooooo appreciated.
I have also included a link to a post that has all of the info about the tank including inhabitants, last testing numbers, and videos of the corals.

Seven Months in & I Have Some Questions

Hello to all Reef2Reef fishy geeks! :cool: First I want to give you all a look at my tank. Please enjoy the following videos. FYI -The quality of the video was better when I watched a download version on my laptop. * Warning* I am NOT the best cell phone videographer. Also, I apologize for the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Doctorgori]

A lil paranoia is healthy in this expensive hobby ... also death from alk swings takes a few weeks;fortunately/unfortunately ....Can’t talk you into trying kalkwasser 1st huh? or is your demand already past that point?

Well anyway I thought the BRS formulas were based on Randys articles which BTW aren’t hard to find (I’d post a link if I weren’t lazy) ... they will explain the differences between Recipe #1 vs Recipe#2 ...I wanna say #2 uses the soda ash ..I could runoff check and verify but hopefully the smart people will clean this reply up ...

 

[Pistondog]

Sound like a good time to start.

Spotlight on BRS 2-Part Additives to supplement your reef tank - BRStv

Today on BRStv Spotlight we are highlighting our very own BRS 2 Part additives for replenishing depleted Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium in your saltwater reef tank. We'll give you tips on choosing the right additives for your tank and super simple dosing instructions to get you started...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[markysgirl]

I have watched every video BRS has about two-part and even the website says:
Ideal for large changes in alkalinity levels or daily dosing in aquariums with high pH.
What equals high ph?
Kalkwasser looks like a big mess to me, I don't want to put it in my ATO.
Honestly, I am pretty good about researching things to death! A side effect of being a doctoral student I think.

 

[HuduVudu]

I have watched every video BRS has about two-part and even the website says:
Ideal for large changes in alkalinity levels or daily dosing in aquariums with high pH.
What equals high ph?
Kalkwasser looks like a big mess to me, I don't want to put it in my ATO.
Honestly, I am pretty good about researching things to death! A side effect of being a doctoral student I think.

Use a Kalk stirrer. That makes it waaaayyyyy less messy and gives you fully saturated solution. I wouldn't put Kalk on an ATO. Use the ATO for peaks in evaporation and push through the stirrer a constant amount. This is very clean and works extremely well.

Going down the dosing path should be scary there is a lot going into the tank with the two part and you can't test the other elements at home.

I highly suggest the kalk over the dosing especially for your situation.

 

[Pistondog]

I have watched every video BRS has about two-part and even the website says:
Ideal for large changes in alkalinity levels or daily dosing in aquariums with high pH.
What equals high ph?
Kalkwasser looks like a big mess to me, I don't want to put it in my ATO.
Honestly, I am pretty good about researching things to death! A side effect of being a doctoral student I think.

High ph is above 8.5.
This video says 90% use soda ash

Which Alkalinity additive is best for my reef tank? Soda Ash or Sodium Bicarb? | Reef FAQs

Today on BRStv Reef FAQs, we get right to the point of helping you decide which Alkalinity additive you need for your reef tank, Soda Ash or Sodium Bicarbonate. Both will increase your tank's Alkalinity levels, however there are other differences between them to keep in mind... and we're here to...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Doctorgori]

I have watched every video BRS has about two-part and even the website says:
Ideal for large changes in alkalinity levels or daily dosing in aquariums with high pH.
What equals high ph?
Kalkwasser looks like a big mess to me, I don't want to put it in my ATO.
Honestly, I am pretty good about researching things to death! A side effect of being a doctoral student I think.

Yeah using it in an ATO is problematic unless you got a large tank + pretty even/consistent evap rate. My tanks are in a Ohio basement: even humidity, temp and evap rate. I’d Skip the ATO route, NTM Kalk ruins pumps over time. ...but I’ve used both 2pt and/or kalk for a very long time. Kalk actually gets the nod for simplicity. Dripping kalk is ole skool but easy and proven

BRS vids are very good, but add those old Randys article in your repertoire; they are vintage gold (as are other Advanced Aquarist articles)...my guess is thats how BRS got started

 

[markysgirl]

High ph is above 8.5.
This video says 90% use soda ash

Thank you! So my 8.2 pH isn't high so soda ash would be better.

 

[markysgirl]

Yeah using it in an ATO is problematic unless you got a large tank + pretty even/consistent evap rate. My tanks are in a Ohio basement: even humidity, temp and evap rate. I’d Skip the ATO route, NTM Kalk ruins pumps over time. ...but I’ve used both 2pt and/or kalk for a very long time. Kalk actually gets the nod for simplicity. Dripping kalk is ole skool but easy and proven

BRS vids are very good, but add those old Randys article in your repertoire; they are vintage gold (as are other Advanced Aquarist articles)...my guess is thats how BRS got started

I have been reading Randy's articles as well and they are really great. In fact I have spent many a night into the morning going down many a rabbit hole on reef2reef and I am learning so much.
I gave kalk a serious amount of thought and you're right it does seem pretty simple but I am not always one to take the simple route. I am planning on putting two part on a dosing pump so I won't have to mess with it too much.
One of the things I love about this hobby the mad scientist aspect!
Thank you so much for your help!!!

 

[HuduVudu]

ou're right it does seem pretty simple but I am not always one to take the simple route.

It's best to do this when you aren't new. Get a handle on what you are doing because the most complicated way can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Start simple build from there.

I am planning on putting two part on a dosing pump so I won't have to mess with it too much.

THIS is the problem. You think that the mechanical is going to make things easier. You are about to be in for a very nasty surprise. The good news is it will hit home (hard) what you are up against, and hopefully you will come out the other side smarter for it.

 

[markysgirl]

It's best to do this when you aren't new. Get a handle on what you are doing because the most complicated way can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Start simple build from there.


THIS is the problem. You think that the mechanical is going to make things easier. You are about to be in for a very nasty surprise. The good news is it will hit home (hard) what you are up against, and hopefully you will come out the other side smarter for it.

So the complete plan is to begin by hand dosing the tank, testing, testing, testing, and then testing some more. I am very aware of how much this can affect my tank and I am going to do everything in my power to keep the inhabitants safe. I will NOT just fill up some jugs, run them into my tank, turn them on, and then ignore it.
I researched reef tanks for 8 years before there was ever a bucket of salt in my house, or a drop of water in my tank.
I realize you think I am going to nuke my tank with two-part and I appreciate your concern but I promise that won't happen. I am a very careful fishy owner and have done lots and lots of research on this, both through the amazing articles on this site, and videos from reputable reef keepers. I researched and considered Kalk and am making the educated decision to go with two-part.
Also new is a strong word. I kept freshwater tanks for 20 years. Those tanks included a blackwater planted tank and a cichlid tank both with very good success.

 

[HuduVudu]

I realize you think I am going to nuke my tank with two-part

I don't think that all. What I think is that you don't realize the depth of dosing. Are you aware for example what it is that you are really dosing when you dose soda ash or baking soda? Do you understand the chemistry of this and more importantly what it means to your tank. This is just one thing. I think if you were going to do dosing a better solution would be something like Triton to get you used to what is happening and why, until you can get your head wrapped around what you are doing.

The problem with dosing is that the problems that come with it if you do it incorrectly seem very weird and far removed from your dosing. At first things will seem fine and then if you don't do this correctly or understand what the import of what you are doing you will head down a path that will cause a lot of grief for you. Kalkwasser is more bullet proof and the chemistry is safer.

Your new, that doesn't mean that you can never get what is happening, quite the contrary. It means that you don't know what you don't know and with what you are doing that can cause problems. If you are diligent and really want to be in the hobby you will get them worked out. I am just confused as to why you would climb Mount Everest on your first climb. This seems counter productive to me.

I researched and considered Kalk and am making the educated decision to go with two-part.

And you did what you consider to be the right thing, I am not challenging that. I am just providing some contra points that you may have missed because this subject is deep and the information that is available is fractured and very difficult to put into a clear picture.

 

[schuby]

Kalkwasser or 2-part, by hand or mechanical doser, they are all dosing. Nothing is simple or easy with a reef tank. Having your mind, eyes and ears open is the most important. There is no reason to push fear on someone who is putting in quality effort to be prepared.

MD or PhD, I wish you the best with your education and reef tank. @markysgirl

 

[Rick.45cal]

Personally I think 2 part dosing is pretty straight forward and easy, especially if you choose a balanced 2 part where the alkalinity and calcium doses are equal, and you just add equal parts based off of alkalinity testing. I used Tropic Marin Balling salts (a 3 part system, that’s added in equal parts). For several years without any kinds of problems. That being said I wouldn’t choose cheap dosing pumps, I would choose based off of reliability. I stopped using 2 part because I was having to dose 1600ml Each of 3 solutions a day (4,800ml total daily) to keep up with the demand of my tank and it was a lot easier to set up a calcium reactor to keep up. The only side effect/downside that I experienced was it was hard to keep my salinity from climbing up, and the expense and trouble of paying for that much 2 part. The corals loved it grew like weeds.

The calcium reactor is the best way, in my experience, short of the initial cost it saves me money in the long run, and it’s way easier on me than having to mix 3 gallons of solutions every few days. But you also have to have a system with a demand high enough to require it.

I’ve run tanks on CaOH as well, and there’s nothing wrong at all with doing it that way either. It’s likely the cheapest way to go about doing it, but if you have a tank full of SPS eventually it won’t be able to keep up with it, since you’re are limited by the amount you can add based on evaporation.

Lots of ways to skin a cat, no reason to be afraid of any of the options, especially since you’ve done your homework.

 

[schuby]

I would recommend not using 2-part to adjust Ca or Alk up to desired levels (corrections or step adjustments). Use 2-part to maintain. Use other things such as Ca supplement or Reef Builder for "adjustments" beyond normal consumption or just to hit desired, starting levels.

If your tank is consuming very little Ca and Alk, then you'll only need to replace very little. As you add coral and they grow, then consumption will start to increase, but it won't be dramatic, just gradual.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Start with kalk... Its the least expensive and risk free option to meeting those needs assuming you have the evaporation rates to support your alkalinity/calcium consumption.

 

[Pistondog]

Started dosing b ionic 2 part by hand, easy to follow the recipe. Adjust as required with alk testing.
Then bought some brs dosing pumps and dosed via apex.
This allowed the dose to be spread out in time.
Switched to triton a year ago, because I'd rather do other things than mix and haul saltwater.
Testing water along the way when startung new things gives the confidence things are progressing as desired/designed and minimizes risk.

 

[blasterman]

Did anybody bother reading the OPs post or are you too busy ramming two part dosing down the OPs throat to read it?

The OPs tank by obvious description is consuming lots of alk but little calcium, so why in blazes are we considering two part dosing? Do we really want a tank with a calcium level of > 500 and a dKH of 7.5, because that's what we are going to get.

A bunch of LPS and softies don't consume much calcium - at all, but a 7month old tank might still be eating a lot of alk. Therfore, its *NOT* balanced and using a two part or lots of kalk will result in sky high calcium.

A 60 cent bottle of baking soda, a set of plastic measuring spoons , and the online reef calculator solves this problem easily and with zero chance if error. Plug in your tank size and alk level twice a week or so and it tells you how much baking soda to add. Done. Alk problem solved. Difficulty level = 1. When the OP starts growing SPS and has a legit need for calcium supplementation we can discuss it then.

Sorry for being harsh, but I swear if I asked some of you for a glass of water you would start by buying tanks of oxygen and hydrogen from BRS.

 

[HuduVudu]

Did anybody bother reading the OPs post or are you too busy ramming two part dosing down the OPs throat to read it?

The OPs tank by obvious description is consuming lots of alk but little calcium, so why in blazes are we considering two part dosing? Do we really want a tank with a calcium level of > 500 and a dKH of 7.5, because that's what we are going to get.

A bunch of LPS and softies don't consume much calcium - at all, but a 7month old tank might still be eating a lot of alk. Therfore, its *NOT* balanced and using a two part or lots of kalk will result in sky high calcium.

A 60 cent bottle of baking soda, a set of plastic measuring spoons , and the online reef calculator solves this problem easily and with zero chance if error. Plug in your tank size and alk level twice a week or so and it tells you how much baking soda to add. Done. Alk problem solved. Difficulty level = 1. When the OP starts growing SPS and has a legit need for calcium supplementation we can discuss it then.

Sorry for being harsh, but I swear if I asked some of you for a glass of water you would start by buying tanks of oxygen and hydrogen from BRS.

Hmmmm ... constant addition of Sodium and Carbonate/BiCarbonate this might not go well long term without water changes. Unless there is a magic wand for removing sodium from the tank.

 

[PatW]

I dose BRS 2 part. I use Soda Ash. I have an SPS dominant tank. I have auto dosing for ALK. I test ALK daily and hand dose what is needed. I just hand dose Calcium daily. I find water changes work for Magnesium so far. But my system is much more high demand than yours. I have never had a problem with pH and I long ago stopped measuring it. It is monitored by my Apex controller.

When I hand dose ALK, if I just dump the soda ash solution into the tank full strength, it produces a small snow storm of crystals but if the flow is high, they dissipate. Just out of caution, I put my dose into about a 10 fold dilution of RODI (far more goes to top off per day so no big deal) and add it that way. Far less snow storm.

In your system, you are getting a 1 DKH change per week. You do not want more than a 1 DKH adjustment of ALK in a day. So you probably should measure and hand dose twice per week. Calcium you are good. For starting, you can go to the BRS website and look at their calculator. It will give you the amount you need to add to your tank to adjust your ALK the amount you want. I would suggest adding about half the suggested amount. Wait about 30 minutes for it to mix and measure you ALK. You just want to see if it is the right amount. If it gets you half way to your goal. Add the remaining suggested dose and you are good.