Dr. Kevin Novak Anoxic Filtration System.

[dryworm]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I was wondering if you were familiar with Dr. Kevin Novak's Anoxic Filtration System and if it could work in Saltwater aquariums?

My name is Kevin Novak Ph.D. and I am an Ichthyologist. Post-doctoral studies in Limnology and Aquatic Microbiology. I have designing a new kind of filtration system using microaerophile bacterium called: facultative anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria, which can be correspondingly used on Koi ponds and water gardens alike. The name of this patented system is called the “Anoxic Filtration System ®” in which can be used in both closed and open pond areas for the removing of e-coli and other harmful pathogen materials from environments, which I think many hobbyists would be interested in. This system works as a network of never clogging negatively charged sites in baskets that are coined the name: biocenosis-clarification-baskets.

Anoxic Filtration System. http://anoxicfiltrationsystem.blogspot.com/2015/09/for-comprehensive-look-into-anoxic.html

Interview with Dr. Kevin Novak.

Dr. Kevin Novak's youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC06AbbfqomU3MvOB4HE64uQ

 

[Doctorgori]

microaerophile bacterium called: facultative anaerobic heterotrophic

Lost me here but following never less

 

[Ron Reefman]

Just what would this filtration system do in a reef tank. I don't think e-coli is much of an issue?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It might be unusual in freshwater systems, but I'm not seeing how this is different than anoxic heterotrophic denitrification that is performed by many commercial media, sand beds, or live rock. We also try to boost this process in reef tanks with organic carbon dosing. I didn't look deeply into the links following links, but the names used to describe the process are the same.

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

4. Deep Sand Beds

Deep sand beds can develop low oxygen regions where nitrate is used by bacteria. They use it to metabolize organics that randomly diffuse into the sand from the water column. When the oxygen gets depleted in the sand, the bacteria can still oxidize the organics available by using nitrate instead of O2. In this situation, nitrate acts as an electron acceptor (e.g., an oxygen source) in place of oxygen (O2). The end result is that nitrate is converted into N2, and the N2 blows off of the tank to the atmosphere. The reactions that take place can be complex.22 In oxygen-containing environments, the reaction looks very similar to that shown above for plankton (ignoring phosphorus here):

organic + 175 O2 → 122 CO2 + 16 NO3– + 16 H+ + 138 H2O

where organic stands for a typical organic material ((CH2O)80(CH2)42(NH3)16) that is being metabolized. In the absence of O2, and taking the nitrogen species completely to N2 (which may happen in several reaction steps), we have the following overall reaction:

organic + 124 NO3– + 124 H+ → 122 CO2 + 70 N2 + 208 H2O

It can be seen that the process above produces alkalinity (by consuming H+). In fact, it is the exact same amount of alkalinity that was depleted when the nitrate was originally formed from foods, so the net effect of the nitrogen cycle on alkalinity is zeroed out.

In many aquaria, the process takes place to an extent sufficient by itself to keep nitrate at levels below 0.5 ppm. In others, it has not been adequate. Success may depend on the size of the bed, its composition (sand type, particle size distribution, depth, and life forms in it), and the demands put on it in terms of nitrate processing. It is rarely discussed by aquarists, but organics are critical for this process as well, and some aquaria may have more or less organic matter in the water (due to use of things like skimming or granular activated carbon) and this, in turn, can impact the nitrate conversion capability of a sand bed.

This process also happens in the pores of live rock, and in a variety of other environments in a reef aquarium.

 

[Azedenkae]

Lost me here but following never less

Microaerophiles are just organisms that like or can thrive in low oxygen conditions. Facultative anaerobes are organisms that respires primarily in the lack of oxygen, but can still respire if there is oxygen. Heterotrophs are just organisms that has to consume organic compounds. As opposed to autotrophs that can synthesize organic compounds from inorganic compounds such as carbon dioxide. Most nitrifiers we are familiar with are autotrophs and can produce organic compounds from inorganic compounds readily available such as carbon dioxide, which is also why they do not need 'feeding' but rather just ammonia to power their lithotrophy (basically they can use ammonia as a source of energy).

 

[redfishbluefish]

Reminds me of NatuReef system....I believe now out of business. It was a pretty simple system controlled by an irrigation timer, but pretty costly ($800+) A closed tank, a pump, timer and mystery solution called something like Nitrogone, or something like that. I think it was simply a methanol based carbon source for the bacteria. What it would do is automatically pump water into the tank, inject the mystery solution, sit for a period of time, repeat. Inside this tank was eggcrate that you seeded with a specific anaerobic bacteria . It converted nitrates to nitrogen. I knew a couple folks who had the system, and it was very effective. I was considering DIY'ing one, but never got around to it. I don't remember the specifics, but believe they had something for the phosphates as well.

EDIT TO ADD:

Found a picture of the unit from one friend who had on....not my picture. Time is sitting on the plexi tank.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

It's good to see another confirmation that Dr. Novak's ideas are rooted in science from Randy. I've been watching Dr. Novak's videos and have been doing some of my own experiments myself. My 10G nano build used a lot of ideas that i got from watching Dr. Novak and I have implemented it as well in my freshwater tanks. There is still a lot more experimenting that needs to be done as far as implementation and efficiency I would say, but the science seems sound and promising.

 

[dryworm]

It's easy to implement in a sump. it's just baked clay in a basket with holes. I just wonder if the baked clay would have any ill effects on coral or water chemistry.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

It's easy to implement in a sump. it's just baked clay in a basket with holes. I just wonder if the baked clay would have any ill effects on coral or water chemistry.

It wont, it's a type of zeolite. Same stuff that the zeovit system uses.

 

[flampton]

Microaerophiles are just organisms that like or can thrive in low oxygen conditions. Facultative anaerobes are organisms that respires primarily in the lack of oxygen, but can still respire if there is oxygen. Heterotrophs are just organisms that has to consume organic compounds. As opposed to autotrophs that can synthesize organic compounds from inorganic compounds such as carbon dioxide. Most nitrifiers we are familiar with are autotrophs and can produce organic compounds from inorganic compounds readily available such as carbon dioxide, which is also why they do not need 'feeding' but rather just ammonia to power their lithotrophy (basically they can use ammonia as a source of energy).

Sorry need to correct a few things here. Microaerophiles are organisms that require low oxygen conditions and so cannot survive within normal oxygen concentrations but still requires oxygen for respiration. Facultative anaerobes are organisms that can use oxygen, but do not require oxygen as they are able to ferment and/or utilize anaerobic respiration. e.g. E. coli

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That is right E. coli is a facultative anaerobic heterotroph, haha! So not sure how a filter designed to support anaerobic heterotrophs would eliminate E. coli. Best case scenario (as it is out in the ponds/lakes etc.) is that the reason for low enterics such as E. coli is lack of pooping mammals in the area, and the inability of E. coli to compete overtime with the normal river/lake flora.

So clearly Dr. Novak doesn't really understand the microbiology. As a facultative anaerobe by definition cannot equal a microaerophile! However I believe this system would work fine in freshwater.

However...

this won't work in saltwater as defined because you won't be able to create a zone that attracts ammonium. This btw is a good thing because you want your ammonium to provide nitrogen for your corals as long as possible before those pesky nitrifiers steal it. Yes I'm not the hugest fan of a purely nitrifier based filtration system as it is a wrongheaded approach to reef care (and why bioball filters are mostly a thing of the past.)

 

[flampton]

With organic carbon dosing you will get the same effect, and thus need to be careful to make sure you're not limiting the nitrogen input.

You can also utilize a refugium or ATS as that is also carbon dosing

 

[Azedenkae]

Sorry need to correct a few things here. Microaerophiles are organisms that require low oxygen conditions and so cannot survive within normal oxygen concentrations but still requires oxygen for respiration. Facultative anaerobes are organisms that can use oxygen, but do not require oxygen as they are able to ferment and/or utilize anaerobic respiration. e.g. E. coli

That's what I said... no?

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Sorry need to correct a few things here. Microaerophiles are organisms that require low oxygen conditions and so cannot survive within normal oxygen concentrations but still requires oxygen for respiration. Facultative anaerobes are organisms that can use oxygen, but do not require oxygen as they are able to ferment and/or utilize anaerobic respiration. e.g. E. coli

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That is right E. coli is a facultative anaerobic heterotroph, haha! So not sure how a filter designed to support anaerobic heterotrophs would eliminate E. coli. Best case scenario (as it is out in the ponds/lakes etc.) is that the reason for low enterics such as E. coli is lack of pooping mammals in the area, and the inability of E. coli to compete overtime with the normal river/lake flora.

So clearly Dr. Novak doesn't really understand the microbiology. As a facultative anaerobe by definition cannot equal a microaerophile! However I believe this system would work fine in freshwater.

However...

this won't work in saltwater as defined because you won't be able to create a zone that attracts ammonium. This btw is a good thing because you want your ammonium to provide nitrogen for your corals as long as possible before those pesky nitrifiers steal it. Yes I'm not the hugest fan of a purely nitrifier based filtration system as it is a wrongheaded approach to reef care (and why bioball filters are mostly a thing of the past.)

I don't think it will have as big of an impact on the corals as you say. Plants do fine with his filtration system and they use ammonia, nitrates like corals do.

 

[flampton]

That's what I said... no?

No, you said microaerophiles like or thrive in low O2. They absolutely require low O2. Facultative anaerobes actually prefer O2 because you can generate more ATP with oxidative phosphorylation. They don't primarily respire without O2. In fact some can't respire without oxygen. If they lack O2 they must ferment...

 

[flampton]

I don't think it will have as big of an impact on the corals as you say. Plants do fine with his filtration system and they use ammonia, nitrates like corals do.

I'm not really going to explain the differences here, because it doesn't matter. This system cannot work by design in saltwater because there is no way to drive ammonium into a zone for removal by heterotrophs and or plants.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I'm not really going to explain the differences here, because it doesn't matter. This system cannot work by design in saltwater because there is no way to drive ammonium into a zone for removal by heterotrophs and or plants.

If you aren't going to help and just say it doesn't work then you are useless here and no clue why you want to even participate.

 

[Azedenkae]

No, you said microaerophiles like or thrive in low O2. They absolutely require low O2. Facultative anaerobes actually prefer O2 because you can generate more ATP with oxidative phosphorylation. They don't primarily respire without O2. In fact some can't respire without oxygen. If they lack O2 they must ferment...

Right, apologies for the 'like' when talking about microaerophiles. They still do thrive in low O2 conditions though, that is not wrong. That was the focus of my statement, but yeah I admit it should have been tighter/clearer.

Facultative anaerobes prefer low O2 conditions actually, that is something I need to correct you. Facultative aerobes are what you are thinking of, when talking about organisms that respire predominantly with O2 but can respire anaerobically if needed.. Some microorganisms are specifically facultative anaerobes because they do respire better without oxygen than with, prominently those that does not contain a functional cytochrome c reductase (or Q-cytochrome c oxidoreductase if you prefer), and hence can only utilize limited electron donors for aerobic respiration, but can utilize a wider range of electron donors (including the atypical NADH) for anaerobic respiration.

 

[flampton]

If you aren't going to help and just say it doesn't work then you are useless here and no clue why you want to even participate.

I want magic things to happen in my tank and thus you should leave because you told me it can't happen. Really is that what you're going with??? Would you believe Randy if he told you it is not possible?

Right, apologies for the 'like' when talking about microaerophiles. They still do thrive in low O2 conditions though, that is not wrong. That was the focus of my statement, but yeah I admit it should have been tighter.

Facultative anaerobes prefer low O2 conditions actually, that is something I need to correct you. Facultative aerobes are what you are thinking of, when talking about organisms that respire predominantly with O2. Some microorganisms are specifically facultative anaerobes because they do respire better without oxygen than with, prominently those that does not contain a functional cytochrome c reductase (or Q-cytochrome c oxidoreductase if you prefer), and hence can only utilize limited electron donors for aerobic respiration, but can utilize a wider range of electron donors (including the atypical NADH) for anaerobic respiration.

I can't... I really can't... You're wrong. A facultative anaerobe will always prefer oxygen. It will always make more energy with oxygen. That's just straight up entry level biochem.

A facultative aerobe is not really a thing, crack a decent text.

Facultative anaerobic organism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh and if you would like a short primer on bacteria, or at least a little background were I'm coming from you might want to check my signature line.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I want magic things to happen in my tank and thus you should leave because you told me it can't happen. Really is that what you're going with??? Would you believe Randy if he told you it is not possible?



I can't... I really can't... You're wrong. A facultative anaerobe will always prefer oxygen. It will always make more energy with oxygen. That's just straight up entry level biochem.

A facultative aerobe is not really a thing, crack a decent text.

Facultative anaerobic organism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh and if you would like a short primer on bacteria, or at least a little background were I'm coming from you might want to check my signature line.

Well Dr. Novak also has a ton of credentials and he says it works in saltwater so I'll at least give a listen to the guy who's trying to be helpful instead of the guy being an egotistical jerk. Who cares what your signature says doesn't make you the authority on everything especially when you won't even explain why you think what you do.

 

[Azedenkae]

I can't... I really can't... You're wrong. A facultative anaerobe will always prefer oxygen. It will always make more energy with oxygen. That's just straight up entry level biochem.

And that's just it. The belief that a facultative anaerobe will always prefer oxygen is exactly entry level. Emphasis on entry level. I suppose when one first starts out one will learn this definition even now, though I really wish this is changed.

We have realized that 'facultative anaerobe' is a poor descriptor that should not be reserved for 'organisms that prefer oxygen by can respire anaerobically', and had to be redefined to match with newer understandings of microbial physiology.

The electron transport chain is not always as straightforward as is often taught in entry level biology. Not all of the 'archetypal' protein complexes are always present, and you also have other membrane-bound proteins (or protein complexes) that can utilize a range of electron donors and acceptors beyond what you learn early on.

A common case is the lack of the archetypal complex III, which is the cytochrome c reductase complex that transfers electrons from an electron-transfer quinol to a c-type cytochrome. This is what is necessary in the conventional model to allow electrons donated from NADH at the very start of the electron transport chain to be transferred to oxygen as the terminal electron acceptor. In the absence of this complex or another protein/protein complex capable of the same function, something else needs to be responsible for reducing c-type cytochromes. Certain D-lactate dehydrogenases come to mind here.

However, this is relatively inefficient, as well, you actually need D-lactate then for there to be aerobic respiration. Like, a lot of it for effective aerobic respiration. At the same time, the organism may be able to utilize electrons from NADH, which is a lot more of a 'common' energy source than D-lactate, for anaerobic respiration - often with fumarate as the terminal electron acceptor, but not always. So, you can have an organism that cannot efficiently generate energy aerobically, but a lot more so anaerobically.

As more and more microbial species are characterized, more is known about the diversity of energy production and it became really important to define their respiratory capacities better. There are also microorganisms that can thrive in both high and low oxygen levels, or those that can respire (effectively) in all oxic conditions. It's not just about what electron acceptors are utilized, but also about the type and diversity of electron donors too.

Hope that helps clear this all up for you.