Duncan colony now struggling.

[jaybleehash]

Hello RTR Community. My Duncan colony seems to be struggling over the last several weeks. Water parameters are good. It thrived for the first 5 months. Now I’ve lost a couple heads and others appear to be receding. These are white light pics from left and then from right. Any ideas?

 

[Fish Fan]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It's helpful if you can list your water parameters, as well as your flow and lighting. Often times that helps other R2R members better help you and your Duncan

The R2R #reefsquad may have further suggestions.

Good luck!

 

[EnterName]

The Zoas to the Duncan's left appear to be stretching for some light. Maybe the coral above is casting a bit of a shadow?

This would also explain why those polyps that aren't facing up towards the light are dying first.

This is just a blind guess, but without parameters or knowledge about the equipment it's hard to help you.

 

[Rocks reef]

^this

I was just thinking it is trying to survive in the shade.
It needs light

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

The duncan seems to be partially in the shade, and as mentioned the zoa's are reaching up so its a good indication the corals want more light.

 

[Troylee]

Never done Duncan’s sorry I can’t help.

 

[ScottJ]

Could be that they need more light, but more info on the tank is really needed.

 

[Peer.Boerner]

Hope you figure it out. Parameters would help. Also did your tank have any rapid changes like a substantial drop in Alkakinity or pH? Tagging along to learn.

 

[jaybleehash]

Hello. I have a RedSea Max S500. For lighting I have 3 Reef 90 LEDs. For flow I have 3 rear circulation pumps, Split VCA return, Jebao SLW-20 wave maker.

My parameters are PH 7.91, nitrate 1.2, phosphate .04, alkalinity 8.12, calcium 389, ammonia 0.

I have a mixed reef with a sinularia, toadstool leather, gorgonian, Duncan, frogspawn, and small Zoa colony. I have two clownfish, a bristletooth tang, royal gramma, Midas blenny, and watchman goby and pistol shrimp.

The tank is about 6 months old

 

[Fish Fan]

What are you using to test for nitrate? The only test I know that resolves down to low single digits like that is the Hanna Checker.

If your testing device is reporting 1.2 ppm for nitrate, that could effectively be zero when you consider the precision of a home, hobby-level test kit.

I don't know if this is causing the Duncan some problems, but I'd try to get the nitrate up at least over 5 ppm on your test kit. You can try to simply feed some more fish food to try to get it up, you could dose ammonia (preferred) or nitrate directly if you'd prefer. That way, you can raise nitrate as you wish without also raising phosphate.

 

[jaybleehash]

What are you using to test for nitrate? The only test I know that resolves down to low single digits like that is the Hanna Checker.

If your testing device is reporting 1.2 ppm for nitrate, that could effectively be zero when you consider the precision of a home, hobby-level test kit.

I don't know if this is causing the Duncan some problems, but I'd try to get the nitrate up at least over 5 ppm on your test kit. You can try to simply feed some more fish food to try to get it up, you could dose ammonia (preferred) or nitrate directly if you'd prefer. That way, you can raise nitrate as you wish without also raising phosphate.

Thank you. I am using the Hanna checker. I do have some seachem reef nitro I can dose

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you. I am using the Hanna checker. I do have some seachem reef nitro I can dose

I'm personally not a big fan of the SeaChem line, at least for saltwater. I'd try feeding more, as long as it doesn't throw your phosphates too high, or I'd dose ammonia as per this thread from Randy Holmes-Farley:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/
And this supplement from the late, great @Miami Reef:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-chart.1123913/

 

[vcnt]

you could dose ammonia (preferred) or nitrate directly if you'd prefer.

Why is dosing ammonia better?

 

[winxp_man]

If you have not messed with lights then that would be ruled out. Hard to say what your parameters are at the bottom tank. I would get a magnetic frag holder and move it up for more light possibly.

As for parameters not much that is really off, but some of your number could use some dosing or WC to bring them up. What salt are you using? I had a Duncan that didn’t make it and it was my magnesium that was off. I don’t see you mag numbers. In a tank I like 3-1 ration minimum for mg to ca. I used to keep my MG 1450+ - and CA at 430-450. The minute I lost control of mag it was never the same, and saw it too late sadly.

PH try getting it at 8.1-8.3ppm, CA 425-450, mag 1400, 1450 possibly.

 

[winxp_man]

Why is dosing ammonia better?

The energy it takes to utilize ammonia vs straight nitrate.

Here is Randy’s page on this subject in detail.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/

 

[Fish Fan]

Why is dosing ammonia better?

What was said just above; it's less energy expensive for algae that live in corals to use ammonia rather than nitrate. They actually convert nitrate back to ammonia, in order to use nitrate, which requires more energy than just using ammonia directly.

And just to add, ammonia isn't nearly as toxic as many would suggest. Please see this thread from Randy Holme-Farley on ammonia toxicity:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-toxic-is-ammonia-really.1030601/
I hope this helps!

 

[vcnt]

The energy it takes to utilize ammonia vs straight nitrate.

What was said just above; it's less energy expensive for algae that live in corals to use ammonia rather than nitrate. They actually convert nitrate back to ammonia, in order to use nitrate, which requires more energy than just using ammonia directly.

I checked out Randy's thread on DIY ammonia very breifly a little while ago, ill reread it closer in the morning!

I never knew Coral could use ammonia directly, and have been under the impression that Ammonia is one of, if not the worst things one could have present, chemically, in the tank!

And just to add, ammonia isn't nearly as toxic as many would suggest. Please see this thread from Randy Holme-Farley on ammonia toxicity:

Thank you guys!

 

[winxp_man]

I checked out Randy's thread on DIY ammonia very breifly a little while ago, ill reread it closer in the morning!

I never knew Coral could use ammonia directly, and have been under the impression that Ammonia is one of, if not the worst things one could have present, chemically, in the tank!


Thank you guys!

There are guys out there that are now doing coral first in a tank vs fish haha.

 

[Fish Fan]

I checked out Randy's thread on DIY ammonia very breifly a little while ago, ill reread it closer in the morning!

I never knew Coral could use ammonia directly, and have been under the impression that Ammonia is one of, if not the worst things one could have present, chemically, in the tank!


Thank you guys!

I listen to pretty much anything Randy Holmes-Farley preaches.

If you're not aware, he's a PhD Chemist, and he's been a reef tank guru for decades now

 

[Fish Fan]

There are guys out there that are now doing coral first in a tank vs fish haha.

For sure! A great way to cycle a new tank, in my humble opinion, is to stack it with coral frags. They can both handle the elevated ammonia, and produce far less ammonia than a fish would. Coral frags are also full of nitrifying bacteria on their flesh, and on the frag plug they are stuck to