Wu Tang Clam
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The best place for the vectra is the trash!!!
Then replace with this [emoji12]
Then replace with this [emoji12]
Ecotech Vectra L1 - New Version - Improvements!
- Thread starter NeverlosT
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Joe Heavy
Community Member
I think it is a heat and impeller flushing issue so far from what I read from users running it externally have more issues and second are the submerged ones running 90-100 percent. It’s sad I wanted one to go with my Radions but instead got an abyzz a100. I will later get a reef octopus as a backup. In case
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
Well, I'll keep the thread up to date if I have any other issues. I just got a reeflink and I'll admit that does make the pump much easier to use, this thing should just come with one.
A RD3 may be in my future someday, but right now with the kiddos and all, the reef piggybank is not that full! How well does the RD3 flush its impeller, does it also have fouling issues? I'd be interested to see internal pics of one that has been running a while.
Anyhow, thanks all for the participation.
A RD3 may be in my future someday, but right now with the kiddos and all, the reef piggybank is not that full! How well does the RD3 flush its impeller, does it also have fouling issues? I'd be interested to see internal pics of one that has been running a while.
Anyhow, thanks all for the participation.
PerplexyHexy
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So is this the new or old style?
The Red Dragon's use an anti lime bypass loop. It is supposed to pull water from the rear bearing to the pump volute which supposedly the rotor and bearing cool. There are three ways of looking at this feature.
1. This feature is innovative and really improves the reliability of the pump.
2. This feature does nothing extra special and is simply more for decoration.
3. An afterthought fix because the pump was improperly designed in the first place.
Regarding the first Gen Red Dragon pumps, I showed this feature to someone at Hagen during a trade show and they just laughed at it. They said it would be a good idea if the pump had insufficient cooling in it's original design. What made it funny to him is that wasn't a flaw of the original Askoll/Laguna design.
I have my thoughts of who is behind the pump motor used in the Red Dragon 3, if I am correct, the pump motor is properly designed. Although the RD3 pump is really sort of a "Frankenpump" the bigger issue remains that this pump has been regarded as rock solid when it comes to reliability!
new!
So is this the new or old style?
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
Thanks Greg.
Nothing like a brand new clean pump!
I guess we could really take it to the max and ask how a Abyzz is cooling itself and handling biofouling. Because if the RD3 isnt perfect in that regard, it would be interesting to know if the Abyzz is. Surely if neither of them handle heat/biofouling better, then there is a strong point for sticking with the Vectra.
Nothing like a brand new clean pump!
I guess we could really take it to the max and ask how a Abyzz is cooling itself and handling biofouling. Because if the RD3 isnt perfect in that regard, it would be interesting to know if the Abyzz is. Surely if neither of them handle heat/biofouling better, then there is a strong point for sticking with the Vectra.
Not saying that the RD3 does not handle cooling properly. I am questioning if there is any added value to the anti lime bypass. Just stating that it may be at the point where there is no added benefit if the pump was properly designed from the beginning. I am pretty sure that it was but since the pump I think it was based on is not available in the US, we will never know.
The Abyzz handles this cooling internally.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
It looks like that's what Ecotech tried to do with the Vectra. Looking at the location of the holes, it wasn't clear to me that there would be much of a pressure gradient to drive flow. It appears that both Abyzz and Ecotech take the flow from behind the impeller where the pressure would likely be negative whereas the Red Dragon has the tube at at the pump outlet where it I would expect it to be positive, but I can't really say for sure.
Alkalinity is interesting in that its solubility drops with temperature. It may be that the Red Dragon's design was adequate in that it wasn't overheating but adding a Channel to flush more water through improved the cooling and reduced lime build up. Depending on how you look at it, you could classify that as fixing an inadequate design or improving the reliability of an already good design. Again, I'm just hypothesizing here.
Something I find interesting with virtually all of these pumps is that they seem to be poorly designed for heat dissipation. When submersed, they are surrounded by water and will have much improved heat dissipation, but when used externally, they depend on air which is much worse at dissipating heat. Most of the pumps I've seen have plastic housings and no fins. That makes me think they are expecting to dissipate the heat internally, regardless of the pump implementation. If that's the case, you're depending quite a bit on water flow around the impeller and magnet to keep things cool.
Alkalinity is interesting in that its solubility drops with temperature. It may be that the Red Dragon's design was adequate in that it wasn't overheating but adding a Channel to flush more water through improved the cooling and reduced lime build up. Depending on how you look at it, you could classify that as fixing an inadequate design or improving the reliability of an already good design. Again, I'm just hypothesizing here.
Something I find interesting with virtually all of these pumps is that they seem to be poorly designed for heat dissipation. When submersed, they are surrounded by water and will have much improved heat dissipation, but when used externally, they depend on air which is much worse at dissipating heat. Most of the pumps I've seen have plastic housings and no fins. That makes me think they are expecting to dissipate the heat internally, regardless of the pump implementation. If that's the case, you're depending quite a bit on water flow around the impeller and magnet to keep things cool.
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
Sleepydoc is spot on there. I think vectra was trying to do the same thing but I agree their water "in" and "out" holes for the cooling loop are nearly beside each other so the pressure differential is likely minimal. Seems like a missed opportunity there, but who knows.
I agree that they all seem to be completely depending on radiant cooling but without elements to increase their surface area for improved convection. Interesting when you compare it to pumps like reeflo (AC) that actively cool the electric motor with a fan.
This, along with some of our hobbies lighting challenges, make me wish that a big fish would find the market attractive enough to swoop in and really do something right, but for an affordable price. I guess phillips was the closest thing we got with lighting, and even they just kind of dipped their toes in.
Wellp, it sounds like we have a few people here with technical backgrounds, lets start a company.
I agree that they all seem to be completely depending on radiant cooling but without elements to increase their surface area for improved convection. Interesting when you compare it to pumps like reeflo (AC) that actively cool the electric motor with a fan.
This, along with some of our hobbies lighting challenges, make me wish that a big fish would find the market attractive enough to swoop in and really do something right, but for an affordable price. I guess phillips was the closest thing we got with lighting, and even they just kind of dipped their toes in.
Wellp, it sounds like we have a few people here with technical backgrounds, lets start a company.
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
update: I just cleaned my vectra L1 again (super convenient because some debris got in there and made a racket at 9PM even WITH a strainer on the intake). The good news is the areas that were supposed to be wet, were wet, so the cooling loop was functioning.
I think the L1 would be amazing if the cooling loop was a bit better designed (better pressure differential between in and out) but who knows I have not run the hydraulic analysis that shows it is good or bad, so maybe there is enough pressure to make the loop work.
I think the L1 would be amazing if the cooling loop was a bit better designed (better pressure differential between in and out) but who knows I have not run the hydraulic analysis that shows it is good or bad, so maybe there is enough pressure to make the loop work.
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
UPDATE: I just cleaned the vectra L1 last weekend because flow was decreasing and it was making noise. Unfortunately I found a not-excellent situation in the pump. The water circulation system had been completely plugged with biofilm (unavoidable with this design which uses such small ports and not a massive pressure differential to flush water through), the magnet was bone dry and hot. Thank goodness they put that new higher-melting point plastic surrounding the impeller chamber or it would have been another melt-down for sure. See pics below. It is clean and running well again now, but... I just ordered an RD3 and will be swapping it out and keeping the vectra as a backup. Having to rebuild my return pump every 5 months is not the kind of reliability I need.
note: the pic with the sponge in the pump shows the biofilm getting pushed out of the "circulation line". ewww. Last pics are all clean and getting reassembled.
note: the pic with the sponge in the pump shows the biofilm getting pushed out of the "circulation line". ewww. Last pics are all clean and getting reassembled.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
The only holes that really matter are the one in pic #6 with the goo coming out of it and one at the back of the chamber that you can't see. They don't have to be completely blocked; if they're obstructed enough to impede flow then the the result will be the same. From the pics, there was more than enough buildup for this to be the case.
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NeverlosT
SPS nut
Sleepy is right on. These were actually completely blocked in this case leading to the bone dry magnet. All of that stuff coming out of the tube is being pushed out because of the pressure from pushing the sponge into the shaft chamber. It is roughly a 1/8" tube, which unless water is being forced through at high pressure (it is not in this case) will become biofouled quickly and plugged. Not a great design. It makes me worried about the RD3 cooling/flushing line which is standard 1/4" OD tubing but maybe the pressure differential is larger or the ID is bigger.
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