Fallow periods: Going Fishless

Wowkuh

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So my DT has been falling for 3 weeks now and I just realized something, my buddies tank is literally about 2 feet from my tank. I know his tank had ich (those fish died and I got rid of some) BUT the only fish that remain in there now is a 6line wrasse and 2 clown fish that have never shown signs of ich and are healthy pigs. My question is, did I just waste 3 weeks of fallow due to the tank being so close to mine? (Aerosol transmission)

I read that clowns are a little more resistant to ich so I'm kinda hoping ich is dying off....

What should i do? Move his aquarium and reset the clock

@Maritimer
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4FordFamily

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So my DT has been falling for 3 weeks now and I just realized something, my buddies tank is literally about 2 feet from my tank. I know his tank had ich (those fish died and I got rid of some) BUT the only fish that remain in there now is a 6line wrasse and 2 clown fish that have never shown signs of ich and are healthy pigs. My question is, did I just waste 3 weeks of fallow due to the tank being so close to mine? (Aerosol transmission)

I read that clowns are a little more resistant to ich so I'm kinda hoping ich is dying off....

What should i do? Move his aquarium and reset the clock

@Maritimer
@4FordFamily
It’s certainly possible, yes. That close it’s possible that water has splashed from one to another, in fact it’s likely. Often tanks that close also end up
sharing nets, we stick arms in one tank then immediately in to another — I’ve done it, it’s burned me more than once before I figured it out.

The tank you were running fallow is sitting two feet away from another one with ich in the past that hasn’t been treated, correct?

If so, I’d start fallow over. :(
 

Wowkuh

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@4FordFamily that suuuuucks. How ever, I almost NEVER swap nets, swap wet hands back and forth. I'm OCD and don't let water drip all over my floors so I always dry my hand/arm if anything. Only things that go back and forth are always dry, my tank sits more than a foot taller than his so I don't think it can splash that high. But you're right, regardless, I should move his tank, and start over
 

4FordFamily

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@4FordFamily that suuuuucks. How ever, I almost NEVER swap nets, swap wet hands back and forth. I'm OCD and don't let water drip all over my floors so I always dry my hand/arm if anything. Only things that go back and forth are always dry, my tank sits more than a foot taller than his so I don't think it can splash that high. But you're right, regardless, I should move his tank, and start over
Nothing stinks worse than doing it wrong and adding fish to restart. How far in the fallow period are you? I’ve screwed it up 3 times over the years. No fun :(
 

4FordFamily

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Over 3 weeks. @4FordFamily not too far in but dang! Lol
Yeah I feel you’re struggle. No risks! I get sloppy with these things sometimes as I rarely have a chance to work on anything without two screaming kids hanging on me due to my wife’s work schedule. @HotRocks is quarantining two more batches for me right now.
 

4FordFamily

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Yeah. I have 2 kids of my own that have tapeworms. They wanna eat every couple hours lol @4FordFamily
Mine just aren’t aware that they can stand more than 1/2 away from me.
 

Jason0101001

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@Humblefish

So my DT has been falling for 3 weeks now and I just realized something, my buddies tank is literally about 2 feet from my tank. I know his tank had ich (those fish died and I got rid of some) BUT the only fish that remain in there now is a 6line wrasse and 2 clown fish that have never shown signs of ich and are healthy pigs. My question is, did I just waste 3 weeks of fallow due to the tank being so close to mine? (Aerosol transmission)

I read that clowns are a little more resistant to ich so I'm kinda hoping ich is dying off....

What should i do? Move his aquarium and reset the clock
How does your buddies tank affect yours? Secondly, even the presence of an immune fish will keep ich breeding. It still lives in their gills.
 

Maritimer

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Ive been trying to google this, but i cannot seem to find the length of fallow time to combat vibrio or at least what i have been told is vibrio

IMG-20181215-WA0004.jpg
I'm not aware of a fallow period for any bacterial infection, Vibrio included. @HotRocks, @4FordFamily or @Big G may know things I don't. (Nah ... there's no "maybe" about it ... those guys know _tons_ of stuff I don't!)

~Bruce
 

Big G

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I'm not aware of a fallow period for any bacterial infection, Vibrio included. @HotRocks, @4FordFamily or @Big G may know things I don't. (Nah ... there's no "maybe" about it ... those guys know _tons_ of stuff I don't!)

~Bruce
Very difficult to effect "bad" bacteria in a DT without destroying the beneficial bacteria in the tank as well. Lots of opinions on the subject but many agree that the "bad" bacteria are secondary to other primary actors such as poor tank conditions, shipping damage, aggression, stress, etc. that allow these "latent" bacteria to become active and effective on the fish with compromised immune systems. Many commercial breeders use UV sterilizers with the correct flow rates and uv outputs to attempt to limit the growth of the harmful bacteria in their grow tanks. But for most of us hobbyists, the best defense is pristine water conditions, feeding fish a variety of high quality foods that reflect their natural food sources, and quarantining all incoming "wet" additions to our tanks.
That being said, what to do if you have a DT with uronema for example in the water? The only way to eliminate it with high confidence would be a tear down and sterilization of the tank and equipment and starting over. All of which furthers the thinking and practice of choosing wisely fish that are healthy and quarantining all incoming fish so to avoid bringing in a "Typhoid Mary" with a compromised immune system into your DT's environment. Perhaps @Humblefish can help us here.
 

4FordFamily

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Very difficult to effect "bad" bacteria in a DT without destroying the beneficial bacteria in the tank as well. Lots of opinions on the subject but many agree that the "bad" bacteria are secondary to other primary actors such as poor tank conditions, shipping damage, aggression, stress, etc. that allow these "latent" bacteria to become active and effective on the fish with compromised immune systems. Many commercial breeders use UV sterilizers with the correct flow rates and uv outputs to attempt to limit the growth of the harmful bacteria in their grow tanks. But for most of us hobbyists, the best defense is pristine water conditions, feeding fish a variety of high quality foods that reflect their natural food sources, and quarantining all incoming "wet" additions to our tanks.
That being said, what to do if you have a DT with uronema for example in the water? The only way to eliminate it with high confidence would be a tear down and sterilization of the tank and equipment and starting over. All of which furthers the thinking and practice of choosing wisely fish that are healthy and quarantining all incoming fish so to avoid bringing in a "Typhoid Mary" with a compromised immune system into your DT's environment. Perhaps @Humblefish can help us here.
I agree with all of this. Antibiotics for infections is about all you can do. Unfortunately we’ve been using them prophylactically recently with better success. Wish we didn’t have to.
 

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thank you for the feed back everyone. looks like i'll have to sterilize the tank.

weird cause my wrasses were not affected, and this angel was in qt for 2 months at the shop where my buddy works. guess i'll have to really focus on water quality when i start up again.
 

robert

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You probably already know this - but it warrants repeating - several of these bacterial infections pose a zootonic concern - meaning you can become infected and in rare instances these infections can prove fatal. A more common symptom is a purple raised sore, itching - with or without pain which doesn't heal normally. There are multiple pathogens of concern.

Careful - use gloves, eye protection. Transmission to humans is typically by contact with water and break in the skin.

It's not something to get too excited over - just bear in mind that it does happen.
 

Big G

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You probably already know this - but it warrants repeating - several of these bacterial infections pose a zootonic concern - meaning you can become infected and in rare instances these infections can prove fatal. A more common symptom is a purple raised sore, itching - with or without pain which doesn't heal normally. There are multiple pathogens of concern.

Careful - use gloves, eye protection. Transmission to humans is typically by contact with water and break in the skin.

It's not something to get too excited over - just bear in mind that it does happen.
Yes. Kinda scary. I stopped using siphon hoses unless using one of those "bulb" devices to get the suction going. Don't want my face, nose, eyes anywhere near an infected tank or when draining/water changing for a QT.
 

Wowkuh

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Should I be avoiding adding new coral/frags during fallow period?
 

Big G

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Should I be avoiding adding new coral/frags during fallow period?
Anything new that is "wet" has the potential of bringing in an encysted parasites like Ich, etc. Recommend all new inverts and corals get a 76 day fishless QT. That being said, the beginning of a new "fallow" period in a DT would be a good time to introduce new inverts and corals. Then the 76 day clock starts.
 

naif

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Going Fallow
**Read this before going fallow**: Why a fallow period will sometimes fail

The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a fish host to feed on, essentially starving it to death.

In order to go fallow you must remove ALL fish from your DT. If just one fish is left behind, even a “disease resistant” species, then going fallow is for naught because the disease will continue its life cycle. Corals/inverts can be left in the DT, as those are not capable of hosting - although some are capable of “housing” the encysted stage of certain parasites for a period of time (see “Fallow Periods” below). It is important to continue to feed your corals/inverts while going fallow, and also put a pinch of flake or pellet food into the DT every 2-3 days to feed nitrifying bacteria in the absence of fish poop. Continue to do everything normally with your tank while going fallow; although you may wish to go lights out if you are running a fish only system (just don’t forget to feed that bacteria!)

Fallow Periods - Below is the general consensus fallow periods for all diseases that require it. In most cases, it is the longest known time period that the encysted stage can survive on corals, inverts, rocks, substrate without a fish host to feed on. The fallow period starts when the last fish is removed from the tank.
  • Black ich (turbellarian worms) - 4 weeks
  • Brooklynella aka “Clownfish disease” or “Brook” - 6 weeks
  • Flukes (monogenean worms) - 4 weeks
  • Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - 76 days
  • Uronema marinum - No fallow period, as it does not require a fish host to survive. It is an opportunistic parasite that strikes when a fish’s immune system has been compromised. Uronema mainly affects damsels (especially chromis) and clownfish.
  • Velvet (Amyloodinium) - 6 weeks
During the fallow period, the fish must be quarantined and treated for whatever disease(s) are afflicting them (see links below). Successful treatment is imperative to avoid disease(s) from being reintroduced into the DT:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189284-fish-diseases-101-a.html

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189658-treatment-options-my-two-cents.html

Quarantining all future livestock purchases is also very important to avoid having to go fallow again in the future: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

After the fallow period has ended, you can return your fish to the DT. I recommend doing it one fish at a time, spread out over a couple of weeks. This will give your bacterial levels time to adjust to the added fish bio-load, and avoid a potential mini-cycle/ammonia spike. I also prefer to add back smaller fish first, so they are established ahead of the larger, more aggressive ones.

Do be sure to closely monitor your ammonia levels while adding fish back. I advocate using a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge for constant monitoring:



Edit: You can also use a FW black molly to test if your fallow period has been successful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/page-2#post-2855190
Hi humble fish


I’m a bit confused , I kept my 350 gallons reef tank fishless for more then 3 months now however I left 2 boxer shrimps and one snowflake eel where I thought eels don’t carry ich !!!! Does that mean my fish-less period if almost 4 months is for waste and would have to do it all over again ?!!

Plus I already have a successful batch of fish that went threw a complete qt process for almost a month with cupramin and I’m about to put them in DT next week [emoji26][emoji26]

Would highly appreciate your input

Regards
 
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