Fallow periods: Going Fishless

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    35 days is technically correct. 20 days encystment period + 15 days of possible free swimmers. But I always like to tack on a buffer (in this case 10 more days) just in case, considering what's at stake (fish being reinfected with velvet). As an added bonus, 45 days fallow eliminates every known strain of ich except the 72 day variant.
     
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  2. saullman

    saullman Active Member

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    Well today marks the day that all my fish (4) are dead. This morning I found my leopard Wrasse being eaten by one of my hermit crabs. I'm pretty sure that it was brook that took out my tank and it hit fast and hard. Unfortunately, I did not have any kind of backup plan in place like a quarantine tank so I just learned my lesson the hard way. The only good news in all of this is that I am moving soon (2 months) and may have to completely dismantle my tank for a few weeks while I am homeless before it gets setup in the new place again. But I have several questions in the interim.

    1- Do I need to worry about the inverts (hermits) eating the fish with the disease (Pretty sure it was brook).
    2- now that I have a fishless tank, should I be feeding anything to the inverts (crabs, snails, and a blood shrimp)
    3- I have about 2 months before I move, should I still do regular water changes?
    4- when I do actually move the tank I was told by WWC to replace the sand. Should I also replace all the water and re-cycle the tank? Or do a 50% water change? Or just move all the water keeping in mind I do still have my inverts and some corals (softies and LPS).

    Sorry about all the questions. I'm still a newbie at all this and learning allot along the way.
     
  3. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    No

    You will need to spot feed them mysis & other meaty foods; and nori/algae wafers for the herbivores if algae growth diminishes significantly. Which sometimes happens in a fishless tank. To maintain bacteria levels, just toss in a pinch of flake/pellets once or twice per week.

    Do you have corals? If so, then yes to provide them with necessary supplements.

    I would replace with all new (dry) sand and do a 100% water change. What's important is your rock (which contains most of the beneficial bacteria) remains submerged in tank water during the move. Put an ammonia alert badge on your new tank, and have a bottle of Amquel or Prime handy just in case you see a brief ammonia spike.
     
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  4. robert

    robert Valuable Member

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    To my understanding, time recommendations are based on studies whose objectives were not necessarily to determine optimal fallow periods for the elimination of the parasite from an aquarium environment.

    With that said, maximal observed intervals reported from various sources, coupled with the reported experience of reefers has resulted in the "conservative" recommendations given. Understanding that these numbers were observed in the laboratory and not the typical hobbyist tanks, may not apply in all cases depending on your setup.

    Too long? Too short? Not really known. More recent evidence suggests environmental factors, other than temperature (which we maintain fairly well anyway) contribute significantly, potentially extending dormant phases considerably, 30 days and potentially longer.
     
  5. Medic56

    Medic56 Member R2R Supporter

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    What about adding corals or anemones? During the afallow period
     
  6. Fudsey

    Fudsey Jack of all trades R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor NHFS Member

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    It will reset the clock as eggs can come attached to the skeleton. Unless you absolutely trust the source...
     
  7. Medic56

    Medic56 Member R2R Supporter

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    What eggs??? And what about anemones?
     
  8. Fudsey

    Fudsey Jack of all trades R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor NHFS Member

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    Ich but it's not called eggs, tomonts I believe. I'm not sure about anemones.
     
  9. Maritimer

    Maritimer Moderator Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter CTARS Member R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Tomonts (encysted stage of the ich / velvet lifecycle) can attach to coral skeletons, but not to anemones or echinoderms. I suppose there could be a stray theront, dinospore or protomont (free-swimming stages) in the water that's on or inside of the anemone, though ...

    ~Bruce
     
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  10. Christopher Dopkin

    Christopher Dopkin Member

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    I accidentally introduced a fish back into my display early following a fallow period of 5 weeks for a velvet outbreak. Two days later, the fish, a kole tang, is fine so far. Is it probable that the velvet is still present , thus reigniting the velvet life cycle again?
     
  11. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    5 weeks is only a week shy of the 6 week fallow period prescribed for velvet. This 6 weeks accounts for (unusually) prolonged cases of the parasite (just like 76 days for ich), so odds are you are probably fine.
     
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  12. Christopher Dopkin

    Christopher Dopkin Member

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    That's what I was hoping for. Thank you
     
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  13. Cloaca

    Cloaca Member

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    I’m interested in the use of a guinea pig to test the success of a fallow tank albeit in this case a freshwater molly.
    Instead of putting it in the refugium/sump would it be safer to put it in a separate tank and pump water in from the DT. All water going back to DT could then go though a UV.
    Perhaps there would be little chance of a theront entering the remote tank as opposed to the fish swimming in all areas of the DT?
     
  14. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    It would be best to expose the molly directly to your DT water. There is always a chance a free swimmer could be missed if only a sample of DT water is used.
     
  15. Cloaca

    Cloaca Member

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    Thank you for your quick reply.
    Due to potential of a cyst being able to hatch at any time up to 73 days I guess there would be no point in adding the molly before the full fallow period.
    I am currently dosing Cupramine in QT. I would be grateful if you could confirm this will kill both the protomonts and the theronts.
     
  16. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Theronts = Yes

    Protomonts = Questionable if copper zaps them all before some manage to encyst.
     
  17. Cloaca

    Cloaca Member

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    Protomonts = Questionable if copper zaps them all before some manage to encyst.

    What would be the reason for this?

    Surly this would make quarantine with Cupramine not as straight forward especially if the copper levels were raised slowly over a few days.
     
  18. maksim serebro

    maksim serebro Active Member

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    After 30 days of copper, would you recommend a course of broad spectrum antibiotics just in case there is a bacterial infection? I’m only asking because some of my
    Fish are flashing but no sign of ich even on my kole tang. I do see scale irritation on firefish and anthias
     
  19. Wen

    Wen Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    This time going fallow, I decided to pick up a 100 gal rubber maid trough for the 76+days for a couple reasons. It will give the fish more swimming room/less aggression and hopefully offer more stability in parameters due to the water volume.
    Of course, I am worried, I don't want to make a mistake.
    Please advise me in the set up of the after QT temporary housing trough:
    • 100 gallon trough filled to 75 gallons
    • screen netting over the top
    • filled with same brand salt mix, same specific gravity
    • small "litter box" filled with new live sand for wrasses
    • small heater
    • small thermometer
    • ammonia badge
    • no artificial light source (the trough sits in front of a window that doesn't get direct or bright sunlight-big trees)
    • will cycle trough via time/live sand/bio-spira
    • I need another mp40, so thought I would put the new one on the trough
    • what to do for filtration???? I have an old aquaC ev skimmer in storage, but worried about fish and intake pump...big sponge on end?
    • will add fish to trough in groups of 2-4 with week + between (total of 12 fish)
    • will do 10 gallon water change each week
    All fish are going through fresh water dip, TTM, prazipro and if needed other meds. They will only enter trough with clean bill of health after qt.

    Anything more I should do to be successful with the Rubbermaid Trough temporary home while DT goes fallow? Advise on filtration please.

    Thank you.
     
  20. Jason0101001

    Jason0101001 Member

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    I guess my first question is how will you treat the fish for ich? You may have issues with some species due to copper sensitivity. You could do hyposalinity dependent also on your fish species. Copper will also kill your live sand and affect the nitrafying bacteria.

    Good luck. I've had all my fish in qt for almost 3 months. And made a couple of mistakes. Mainly my copperband butterflyfish was sensitive to copper and died.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using REEF2REEF mobile app
     
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