Fallow periods: Going Fishless

[AquaDaddy]

Hi there,

While I think this is probably my first post, I want to express that I've learned a ton from reading all the various posts. Specifically, I have a 93 cube, with a mixed reef and a various amount of fish. I'm learning more and more every day and I never quarantined, because well, just like all the other knuckleheads, felt it wouldn't happen to me. I knew all my sources, my fish came from a store where the fish are kept in copper water. But, over Christmas, I got a very bad case of Ich, and noticed it on my clown fairy, yellow tang, sailfin tang the most. Others had some, not really knowing what to watch for having never seen it, my son pointed it out to me.

So, we had a 29 biocube which had been our starter tank and I set it up as a quarantine system. I moved all the fish to the 29 which involved buckets all over my floor pulling out the rocks, corals, etc... Was a very lengthy process and oh, by the way, done on Christmas day. I live in a small town and only had access to copper so started by using that. It is the Fritz Mardel. I have lost 4 fish to this, one midas blenny becuase we could never find him and he was lost in a rock during the shuffle, only to find him in DT a day later being eaten by the shrimp. I also lost my clown fairy, yellow goat fish and one other (escapes me right now) but most are surviving in the QT.

A couple questions:
- I have done some water changes in the 29 as it's small and I still have a high bioload on there, but have always added the amount of copper for the water exchanged. This is per their directions and seems to work. I plan to stop the copper after thirty days and dose nothing? Is this correct? I had read that while treating for ich, it's also good to treat for infections too? Is this true, and if so, what product?
- I have continued to feed my corals on occasion and they and the inverts seem to be doing well, so I don't plan to do anything to this tank except to maintain it for 76 days, keep feeding the corals, inverts and regular water changes just like normal. Oh, and since I had the entire tank apart, I did a good vacuum on the sand before I put my aquascape back together.

First, thanks to everyone for all the information, especially HF as this has made a very frustrating thing tolerable, but a good learning experience and hopefully I have saved most of my animals. Second and last, besides my questions above, am I missing anything?

Thanks much
Ed

 

[Brew12]

Hi there,

While I think this is probably my first post, I want to express that I've learned a ton from reading all the various posts. Specifically, I have a 93 cube, with a mixed reef and a various amount of fish. I'm learning more and more every day and I never quarantined, because well, just like all the other knuckleheads, felt it wouldn't happen to me. I knew all my sources, my fish came from a store where the fish are kept in copper water. But, over Christmas, I got a very bad case of Ich, and noticed it on my clown fairy, yellow tang, sailfin tang the most. Others had some, not really knowing what to watch for having never seen it, my son pointed it out to me.

So, we had a 29 biocube which had been our starter tank and I set it up as a quarantine system. I moved all the fish to the 29 which involved buckets all over my floor pulling out the rocks, corals, etc... Was a very lengthy process and oh, by the way, done on Christmas day. I live in a small town and only had access to copper so started by using that. It is the Fritz Mardel. I have lost 4 fish to this, one midas blenny becuase we could never find him and he was lost in a rock during the shuffle, only to find him in DT a day later being eaten by the shrimp. I also lost my clown fairy, yellow goat fish and one other (escapes me right now) but most are surviving in the QT.

A couple questions:
- I have done some water changes in the 29 as it's small and I still have a high bioload on there, but have always added the amount of copper for the water exchanged. This is per their directions and seems to work. I plan to stop the copper after thirty days and dose nothing? Is this correct? I had read that while treating for ich, it's also good to treat for infections too? Is this true, and if so, what product?
- I have continued to feed my corals on occasion and they and the inverts seem to be doing well, so I don't plan to do anything to this tank except to maintain it for 76 days, keep feeding the corals, inverts and regular water changes just like normal. Oh, and since I had the entire tank apart, I did a good vacuum on the sand before I put my aquascape back together.

First, thanks to everyone for all the information, especially HF as this has made a very frustrating thing tolerable, but a good learning experience and hopefully I have saved most of my animals. Second and last, besides my questions above, am I missing anything?

Thanks much
Ed

Not exactly the most wonderful way to spend the most wonderful time of the year! And I am sorry for all of your losses. These situations take much of the joy out of the hobby when people go through them.

It looks like your plan is right on point. Do you have a seachem alert badge? Ammonia tests don't work in a system with copper so the badge is a nice safety feature.

Unless you see signs of a bacterial infection I would stick with just the copper for now. Treat for the 30 days like you are doing and then start pulling it out of the water. After that, it is all about patience.

Oh, and Welcome to Reef2Reef! Sorry it wasn't under better circumstances!

 

[Maritimer]

Do you have a copper test kit? With the Fritz-Mardel (Coppersafe?), which is a _chelated_ form of copper, you'll want to use the API test kit, and shoot for a therapeutic level between 1.5 and 2.0ppm. The directions on the bottle may not quite get you there, though they should get you close enough to reduce the ich population and bring some relief.

When you're changing water, add the copper to the water _before_ you put the water into the tank. Don't give those little so-and-sos any window of opportunity to reinfect your fish.

Absolutely continue to feed corals and inverts. That'll help keep the biofilter in that tank ticking over, and make things easier when you reintroduce fish to the tank.

~Bruce

 

[AquaDaddy]

Thanks Maritimer and Brew. I have not been testing for copper, just keeping the dose constant. I'll get a test kit (as you suggested) from API. And I didn't think about adding the copper to the water first, so will do that from hence forward.

Thanks again.

 

[Nstocks]

Slightly off topic but could TTM work for corals?

I don't plan on adding many corals and buying a adequate light that will sustain the coral for 76 days+ isn't going to be cheap, so assuming there is a theronts, could TTM effectively remove all ick from coral?

 

[Brew12]

Slightly off topic but could TTM work for corals?

I don't plan on adding many corals and buying a adequate light that will sustain the coral for 76 days+ isn't going to be cheap, so assuming there is a theronts, could TTM effectively remove all ick from coral?

Unfortunately, no. TTM works because Ich cannot stay on a fish more than 7 days. You transfer the fish away from the ich that encysts on hard surfaces after releasing from the fish. The coral is one of those hard surfaces that Ich can attach to so it can stay on there for up to 72 days.

 

[Tanggy]

I am currently in my 8th week of going fallow. Had an ich outbreak. My goal is to let it go fallow for 12 wks. The fishies are in QT right now. They have gone 8 wks of copper and now the last 4 wks I plan on observing them. My question is: Can we get ICH from corals. I added a couple of scolys last week to the DT. How long do I have to wait B4 I can add the fishes back to the DT? Thanks.

 

[Big G]

Here's a great post on how long to QT inverts & corals to prevent ICH, etc. But to answer your question, yes, you can get ICH from encysted corals.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine-coral-and-inverts.288859/#post-3515086

 

[Tanggy]

Thanks for the link. I guess I have 10 wks to go till I can put the fishes back...

 

[PeterG]

If I don’t stop clicking thru on all these links I’ll never get thru this thread. Had to skip a few pages as my dogs were starting to plan an open revolt. My personal infestation saga can be viewed by clicking on my icon. My DT will remain fallow until March 10th (not that I’m counting)

My surviving fish and I have just completed our 30 day QT copper treatment with Cupramine and I am in the process of doing 25% water changes to get all traces of copper out of the tank. My QT is a 20 gal all-in-one kit from Aqueon. I put some carbon in the HOB filter to aid in removing the copper. Once that’s done I’ll begin the Prazipro treatment. I’ve got instructions (Thanks HumbleFish and to Big G for linking me to the step-by-step.
QUESTIONS:
Do I remove the carbon from the HOB when I dose with Prazi?
Once I’ve completed the 2-dose Prazi treatment do I just keep my fish in this QT and under observation until repatriating them in the DT?

I'm feeding my DT corals every few days with Reef Chili and sprinkling a few pellets into the tank whenever I think of it and I'm taking pains not to x-contaminate the QT.
Can all hoses, basters, buckets, Brutes, etc be disinfected once this ordeal is over or do I have to replace everything?

One of the links I followed introduced me to the joys of QTing all new corals & inverts before introducing them into the DT. (Thanks Melypr1985 for the info and again to Big G for the link)
QUESTIONS:
Do new corals require any type of medication during their 76 days in QT? I didn’t see anything on that but "better to ask and be thought ... " You know the rest.
Do the corals & inverts still in the fallow DT need any additional QT other than “time-spent” in the DT?

I didn't want to wait til Mar 10th to start QTing new fish so I just bought a 29 gal from Petco which will serve as my new QT tank for fish so I’m going to turn the current 20 gal tank into a coral & invert QT.
QUESTION:
When I disinfect the 20 gal after my fish return to the DT should I leave the HOB, heater, etc all hooked up and run the bleach solution thru the system? How long does it take to disinfect?
Can these two QT tanks be closer to each other than the 10ft rule to avoid aerosol contamination? I’m running out of guest bedrooms to house these QT tanks.

And I thought this hobby would be less expensive than photography!

 

[Brew12]

Wow.. Questions!

Do I remove the carbon from the HOB when I dose with Prazi?

Yes, remove it when treating with any meds.

Once I’ve completed the 2-dose Prazi treatment do I just keep my fish in this QT and under observation until repatriating them in the DT?

Yup. Doing a water change and adding the carbon back would be a good idea.

Can all hoses, basters, buckets, Brutes, etc be disinfected once this ordeal is over or do I have to replace everything?

Yup, after they have been completely dry for a few days they will be just fine.

Do new corals require any type of medication during their 76 days in QT? I didn’t see anything on that but "better to ask and be thought ... " You know the rest.

Not from a fish perspective. I like to dip mine in Bayer for bugs and sometimes I will then do a peroxide dip for algae.

Do the corals & inverts still in the fallow DT need any additional QT other than “time-spent” in the DT?

Nope, they need the same 76 days as the tank. That dinner is done at the same time!

When I disinfect the 20 gal after my fish return to the DT should I leave the HOB, heater, etc all hooked up and run the bleach solution thru the system? How long does it take to disinfect?

Its a great idea. I normally would dump in about a cup of bleach and let it run a few hours. Then dry everything well. Should be fine.

Can these two QT tanks be closer to each other than the 10ft rule to avoid aerosol contamination? I’m running out of guest bedrooms to house these QT tanks.

This gets tricky. As long as you have full copper in the newest one before you pull the copper from the oldest one you should be fine.

 

[Big G]

1. Yes, no carbon while running Prazi
2. After Prazi, w/c and carbon to remove Prazi. Observe for 10-14 days. Sometimes another round is needed for a particularly tough strain of flukes.
3. Clean with bleach (for bio-film), rinse, dry. Clean with vinegar (for copper), rinse, dry. The only things to toss are Seachem Ammonia Alert badges and some filter materials.
4. I dip all my new corals in Bayer, rinse with saltwater, rinse with saltwater. Wait a week dip again.

 

[PeterG]

Thanks Brew12 for your insights.As a follow-up on your answer on the question: :

"Can these two QT tanks be closer to each other than the 10ft rule to avoid aerosol contamination? I’m running out of guest bedrooms to house these QT tanks."

This gets tricky. As long as you have full copper in the newest one before you pull the copper from the oldest one you should be fine.

One of the QT tanks will be for fish the other for corals. I'm new at this but I think I read that Copper is not recommended for corals.

 

[PeterG]

1. Yes, no carbon while running Prazi
2. After Prazi, w/c and carbon to remove Prazi. Observe for 10-14 days. Sometimes another round is needed for a particularly tough strain of flukes.
3. Clean with bleach (for bio-film), rinse, dry. Clean with vinegar (for copper), rinse, dry. The only things to toss are Seachem Ammonia Alert badges and some filter materials.
4. I dip all my new corals in Bayer, rinse with saltwater, rinse with saltwater. Wait a week dip again.

Thanks Big G.
Any opinion on whether I can keep a QT for fish and a QT for corals within the 10ft rule?
I've been dipping my corals in Coral Rx according to package directions. Is Bayer an additional treatment or in lieu of the Coral Rx?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks Brew12 for your insights.As a follow-up on your answer on the question: :

"Can these two QT tanks be closer to each other than the 10ft rule to avoid aerosol contamination? I’m running out of guest bedrooms to house these QT tanks."



One of the QT tanks will be for fish the other for corals. I'm new at this but I think I read that Copper is not recommended for corals.

No, that would be a bit of an issue. I would get a very small fan, put it on the invert QT, and point it at the fish QT. I can't get my QT 10 ft from my DT so I mount a small clip on fan on my DT and point it at my QT.

 

[Big G]

Thanks Big G.
Any opinion on whether I can keep a QT for fish and a QT for corals within the 10ft rule?
I've been dipping my corals in Coral Rx according to package directions. Is Bayer an additional treatment or in lieu of the Coral Rx?

Some folks think that using both Bayer (for bugs) and Coral Rx (antiseptic) is the best of both worlds. I suppose that depends on the types of corals being dipped and the condition of the corals. For example if a coral had been chewed upon by some bug infestation, using both makes a lot of sense. ;)

 

[PeterG]

No, that would be a bit of an issue. I would get a very small fan, put it on the invert QT, and point it at the fish QT. I can't get my QT 10 ft from my DT so I mount a small clip on fan on my DT and point it at my QT.

Thanks, that sounds like an easy enough solution.

Some folks think that using both Bayer (for bugs) and Coral Rx (antiseptic) is the best of both worlds. I suppose that depends on the types of corals being dipped and the condition of the corals. For example if a coral had been chewed upon by some bug infestation, using both makes a lot of sense. ;)

Probably can't hurt to do both. This is the same Bayer product they sell in the garden section at Home Depot right?

 

[Big G]

This is the same Bayer product they sell in the garden section at Home Depot right?

Well they used to sell it there. I bought mine at a local garden supply.

 

[PeterG]

Today is Day 76 and time to repopulate my DT. I plan to do a 25% water change before acclimating my fish. Is there any thing I need to do before introducing them to the tank?

It looks great, water is clear, corals all doing well. Only thing I noticed the other day hanging off a rock way on the bottom (figures) is this white stringy gelatinous growth. Not sure if it is some type of algae or what. It doesn’t move and it was easy to dislodge a piece. Is this something I need to remove or otherwise deal with before putting the fish back? Photos attached.

 

[jeff williams]

Today is Day 76 and time to repopulate my DT. I plan to do a 25% water change before acclimating my fish. Is there any thing I need to do before introducing them to the tank?

It looks great, water is clear, corals all doing well. Only thing I noticed the other day hanging off a rock way on the bottom (figures) is this white stringy gelatinous growth. Not sure if it is some type of algae or what. It doesn’t move and it was easy to dislodge a piece. Is this something I need to remove or otherwise deal with before putting the fish back? Photos attached.

IMO depending on how many fish you have , I would add 2 give it a couple days add 2 more give it a couple days and so on. Keep an eye on ammonia and keep some prime on hand just in case