Feeding microbes

[CoralClasher]

Do you feed the invisible cleaning crew anything special?

 

[AutumnReefs]

I think the only thing that you could possibly "feed" them is organic carbon (carbon dosing)

 

[Azedenkae]

Do you feed the invisible cleaning crew anything special?

No, not really. At least for my aquariums, they have plenty to feed on anyways.

 

[KrisReef]

Nope, I just let them clean up the crumbs I drop and they stay out of site and do their thing.

 

[CoralClasher]

So the reason I ask is it seems I have a lot of detritus building up. I know there are different microbes in lawns than the reef tank but I just used a mix of beer, dish soap and ammonia on my lawn and it made a big difference. There has to be a mixture of things that will feed the microbes in the tank to help with over feeding-fertilizing.

 

[KrisReef]

Yes, and no! (Momma gonna roll over in her grave she her's a prayer of me wasting a beer on the lawn!)

The issue of build-up of detritus in our tanks seems to be more closely related to thatch in the lawn. The article mentions a thatch rake, I'd suggest siphoning the detritus and blasting the rock (powerhead, basting tool, etc) are more like using the thatch rake to remove excess funk from the habitat.

But if you do decide to put something in the tank, please, for the sake of mom, do not waste beer (or Vodka- come to think of it) or dish soap in your tank. There have been a few mentions in threads about adding mud (mud=microbes + mineral dirt) to our tanks to improve the microbe population diversity, so I do think there is something "there" but specifically what that is isn't very well understood. Terrestrial ecosystems have many years of study because they are easier for air breathers to access and replicate in the lab or at a university study farm.

The other interesting thing about the beer + dish soap + ammonia is that the ammonia is fertilizer which is food for the microbes but so is the thatch? I don't see the article making much more sense than I am, before coffee and after a sleepless night worrying about ordering my new reef thatch rake, which I have not designed yet?

Yes, there is something here there.

 

[CoralClasher]

Just for fun I added 1/2 can of beer some dish soap and ammonia to about three gallons of sump water. So is detritus just garbage or can I harvest it and cultivate it then feed it back to the tank? I don’t plan on using this batch but maybe setup some outside experiments.

 

[CoralClasher]

Beer+dish soap+ammonia may not be reef safe but it is doing something.

 

[CoralClasher]

Yes, and no! (Momma gonna roll over in her grave she her's a prayer of me wasting a beer on the lawn!)

The issue of build-up of detritus in our tanks seems to be more closely related to thatch in the lawn. The article mentions a thatch rake, I'd suggest siphoning the detritus and blasting the rock (powerhead, basting tool, etc) are more like using the thatch rake to remove excess funk from the habitat.

But if you do decide to put something in the tank, please, for the sake of mom, do not waste beer (or Vodka- come to think of it) or dish soap in your tank. There have been a few mentions in threads about adding mud (mud=microbes + mineral dirt) to our tanks to improve the microbe population diversity, so I do think there is something "there" but specifically what that is isn't very well understood. Terrestrial ecosystems have many years of study because they are easier for air breathers to access and replicate in the lab or at a university study farm.

The other interesting thing about the beer + dish soap + ammonia is that the ammonia is fertilizer which is food for the microbes but so is the thatch? I don't see the article making much more sense than I am, before coffee and after a sleepless night worrying about ordering my new reef thatch rake, which I have not designed yet?

Yes, there is something here there.

Yes I have added microbes from a few different vendors and I have an order coming next week from Hawaii. That’s why I’m cleaning what I can before the live sand and stuff comes. I’m going to do more de thatching today and setup four one gallon jars with the detritus. Is there anything you recommend I add to them that is reef safe? I already started a Phyto tank with just old water and f2 fertilizer a few weeks ago.

 

[KrisReef]

The only thing I recommend in go easy on the ammonium nitrate

 

[CoralClasher]

The only thing I recommend in go easy on the ammonium nitrate

Yeah I was only going to use ammonia in one jar, Coca-Cola in another, Seachem reef plus in another and Brightwell Razor in the last.

 

[KrisReef]

Yeah I was only going to use ammonia in one jar, Coca-Cola in another, Seachem reef plus in another and Brightwell Razor in the last.

Coca cola, Really?
? (I use muriatic for some applications-really!) ?

Edit,

I have to drive this morning and didn't scroll up to see the other responses.

I'm too lazy to phyto culture but I might quit my job and get busy doing this kind of fun stuff, but not today!

OH, great thread on microbe enhancement- I think the future reef will be more microbe focused and more successful for even more species because of it. Gotta fly!

 

[CoralClasher]

Coca cola, Really?
? (I use muriatic for some applications-really!) ?

Yeah I heard someone using Coca Cola in his reef and I want to try it first in an experiment.

 

[CoralClasher]

8 drops of ammonia in one jar, 3.3ml Razor in one, 4ml reef plus in one. How much Coca Cola should I add to the last one?

 

[CoralClasher]

Little update: I didn’t use Coca Cola, I left one with nothing. The jar I added ammonia is looking the best.

 

[CoralClasher]

Well all of these experiments flopped. They all got really hot out in the sun and turned cloudy. I just got “live rock enhance” from Reef Brite and this is something worth looking into. Yesterday was my first dose so too early to say for sure but things responded nicely so far.

 

[Timfish]

I would strongly encourage you get a copy od Forest Rohwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kinndle is $10, paperback is $16) DeGoeij's work on sponges is important too (links below). It matters a great deal what kind of bacteria are promoted in reef systems. Some types of DOC will promote heterotrophic bacteria and potentially pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes. Here's a list of refferences and some videos you may find informative:

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


DOC stuff:

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
Coral seperated from algae with a .02 µm filter die. Treatment with aampicillan prevents death.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism

Benthic primary producers in tropical reef ecosystems can alter biogeochemical cycling and microbial processes in the surrounding seawater. In order to quantify these influences, we measured rates of photosynthesis, respiration, and dissolved organic carbon (DOC) exudate release by the dominant...

peerj.com

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity

Benthic primary producers in marine ecosystems may significantly alter biogeochemical cycling and microbial processes in their surrounding environment. To examine these interactions, we studied dissolved organic matter release by dominant benthic taxa and subsequent microbial remineralization in...

journals.plos.org

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf

Sponge stuff:

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

Error - Cookies Turned Off

besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

(PDF) 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop

PDF | On Jun 23, 2015, Jasper M de Goeij and others published 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Coral-excavating sponges are the most important bioeroders on Caribbean reefs and increase in abundance throughout the region. This increase is commonly attributed to a concomitant increase in food availability due to eutrophication and pollution. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

The role of marine sponges in carbon and nitrogen cycles of coral reef and nearshore environments - ProQuest

Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.

search.proquest.com

 

[brandon429]

This is how I see it: no animals we keep fail to add to the detritus chain. Detritivores eat and then excrete more detritus. Physical removal wins

Some ultra low surface area systems can be in a lifted vs settling state for the waste and in this case maybe the filter sock will catch it, maybe it won't.

No reef using a sandbed qualifies as low SA, it's a catchpoint along with rocks. I don't think feeding pods is the issue

Your daily fare does that

Its that they thin over time due to selection and we need to re add some, order a bag o pods


They still won't remove detritus they'll add to it

 

[CoralClasher]

I would strongly encourage you get a copy od Forest Rohwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kinndle is $10, paperback is $16) DeGoeij's work on sponges is important too (links below). It matters a great deal what kind of bacteria are promoted in reef systems. Some types of DOC will promote heterotrophic bacteria and potentially pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes. Here's a list of refferences and some videos you may find informative:

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


DOC stuff:

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
Coral seperated from algae with a .02 µm filter die. Treatment with aampicillan prevents death.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism

Benthic primary producers in tropical reef ecosystems can alter biogeochemical cycling and microbial processes in the surrounding seawater. In order to quantify these influences, we measured rates of photosynthesis, respiration, and dissolved organic carbon (DOC) exudate release by the dominant...

peerj.com

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity

Benthic primary producers in marine ecosystems may significantly alter biogeochemical cycling and microbial processes in their surrounding environment. To examine these interactions, we studied dissolved organic matter release by dominant benthic taxa and subsequent microbial remineralization in...

journals.plos.org

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf

Sponge stuff:

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

Error - Cookies Turned Off

besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

(PDF) 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop

PDF | On Jun 23, 2015, Jasper M de Goeij and others published 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Coral-excavating sponges are the most important bioeroders on Caribbean reefs and increase in abundance throughout the region. This increase is commonly attributed to a concomitant increase in food availability due to eutrophication and pollution. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

The role of marine sponges in carbon and nitrogen cycles of coral reef and nearshore environments - ProQuest

Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.

search.proquest.com

Wow just watched the first video and I’m planning to watch all of them thanks for information!

 

[CoralClasher]

This is how I see it: no animals we keep fail to add to the detritus chain. Detritivores eat and then excrete more detritus. Physical removal wins

Some ultra low surface area systems can be in a lifted vs settling state for the waste and in this case maybe the filter sock will catch it, maybe it won't.

No reef using a sandbed qualifies as low SA, it's a catchpoint along with rocks. I don't think feeding pods is the issue

Your daily fare does that

Its that they thin over time due to selection and we need to re add some, order a bag o pods


They still won't remove detritus they'll add to it

Yeah I’ve added so many pods and bugs over the years. I’m trying to think smaller than bugs and not just bacteria. My first dose of LRE had similar responses as wonder mud and stuff from Hawaii.