Feeding post-cycle

[shorediver]

This is a beginner question for sure... It's about feeding before I add livestock to the tank.

I've got my tank salinated and will be adding dry rock and sand this weekend, along with a little bit of live rock to seed it. It'll go through a cycle and I'll add a clean-up crew once it reaches the green hair algae stage.

But before that point, I'm expecting the live rock to have various things growing on it which hopefully will spread to the dry rock. Do I need to feed them, or are they all photosynthetic? What if I find some nice worms on there - what will they eat, before I add waste-generating fish and corals to the tank?

And then, once I add the CUC and they devour the hair algae, what will they eat? More algae as it appears? The bodies of their fallen comrades?

Thanks!

 

[rfgonzo]

If your talking about during your cycle? Yes you can either ghost feed or add a grocery store shrimp. Your goal is to build the bacteria for the nitrogen cycle.

 

[brandon429]

Here is twenty successful cycles from this forum all condensed:

-set up your arrangement with mixed live and dry rock and sand and let it stew 30 days, this is your start date due to submersion charts on google showing 30 days.

-your start date and this entire process is independent of algae, cycling is for bacteria. You may indeed use algae as a start sign, but by then you are algae invaded. Cruise the nuisance algae forum here, see what is active in terms of self caused invasions. You have the option of lifting out rocks, hand cleaning algae off and even using various cheats to kill it off, and setting rock back. No amount of access or guiding or cleaning harms the rock. No amount of pulling dandelions to force a controlled lawn harms the lawn.

-never have clean up crews as the deciding factor on if your tank is invaded with algae, at any stage. See nuisance algae forum, the time, cost and loss associated with full tank invasions. How many self-fixed? How many did a clean up crew in place prevent?

Be hand guiding and gardening your new algae rocks, its expected to grow on them. disallow takeover, for 2020 cycling where we don't purposefully wreck things for six months (or two years per some threads you'll see)

Your clean up crew eats whole feed, they don't live solely off tank waste. add some food or pellets occasionally, not waste algae. Their job is to keep rocks *you have cleared and managed* free of algae, as regrowth controllers only. Not removers, you are the remover and you work for two years until dry rocks become live, and quit taking on so much algae. This is the cost in effort of using dry rocks vs full coralline live rock for all the rock, its algae-excluding to a large degree.

-you do not have to add anything in the 30 days setup and wait. Live rock transmits only bac at this time, your dry rock will take years to catch up expect not much change other than you choosing to let it wreck, or be clean, as the years go by. If you choose to add a shrimp that’s fine, change out your rot water on day 30. Nothing will stop the cycle, only changes in algae fuel are happening. To not add a shrimp is to fight less algae.

-at day 30, start however you like the system will be ready. We haven't mentioned test kit readings since 30 days covers cycles, google charts show. Plus your live rock adds feed and bacteria and other animals it only takes time allowed. nothing you withhold can stop your cycle. nothing you add will speed it up, it'll add to algae.


-you have a big choice to make about self invading your tank or keeping it clean. cycling is about bacteria not algae, ever.
before allowing algae to take over your system, check the nuisance forum and see that algae takes over tanks of any age, it is not related to new tanks only. A huge degree of those entrants started an uglies phase, and it never went away.


-there is no problem with uglies stage cycling if you dont mind the look possibly well extended. thousands do this way, it is ok to repeat if you like. The above is simply a new option because we know cycles cannot stall, and cleaning cannot undo them. You can choose either way.

-see the fish disease forum.

your tank can handle fish on day 30, but the time you should add fish is much later due to links there in the fish forum. There is a certain order to adding fish that determines if they live or die from disease. Nearly all threads in the forum are discussing skipping the order of ops and how to handle

you cannot stall or mess up a cycle on day 30 wait having added live rock at the start, so test kit readings simply won’t matter and if you bought none, the exact outcome above will occur. If you choose to run test kits and any one of them says something isn’t ready by day 30, it doesn’t matter, the outcome above will occur.

 

[Dbichler]

Here is twenty successful cycles from this forum all condensed:

-set up your arrangement with mixed live and dry rock and sand and let it stew 30 days, this is your start date due to submersion charts on google showing 30 days.

-your start date and this entire process is independent of algae, cycling is for bacteria. You may indeed use algae as a start sign, but by then you are algae invaded. Cruise the nuisance algae forum here, see what is active in terms of self caused invasions. You have the option of lifting out rocks, hand cleaning algae off and even using various cheats to kill it off, and setting rock back. No amount of access or guiding or cleaning harms the rock. No amount of pulling dandelions to force a controlled lawn so your neighbors don't hate you harms the lawn.

-never have clean up crews as the deciding factor on if your tank is invaded with algae, at any stage. See nuisance algae forum, the time, cost and loss associated with full tank invasions. How many self-fixed? How many did a clean up crew in place prevent?

Be hand guiding and gardening your new algae rocks, its expected to grow on them. disallow takeover, for 2020 cycling where we don't purposefully wreck things for six months (or two years per some threads you'll see)

Your clean up crew eats whole feed, they don't live solely off tank waste. add some food or pellets occasionally, not waste algae. Their job is to keep rocks *you have cleared and managed* free of algae, as regrowth controllers only. Not removers, you are the remover and you work for two years until dry rocks become live, and quit taking on so much algae. This is the cost in effort of using dry rocks vs full coralline live rock for all the rock, its algae-excluding to a large degree.

-you do not have to add anything in the 30 days setup and wait. Live rock transmits only bac at this time, your dry rock will take years to catch up expect not much change other than you choosing to let it wreck, or be clean, as the years go by.

-at day 30, start however you like the system will be ready. We haven't mentioned test kit readings since 30 days covers cycles, google charts show. Plus your live rock adds feed and bacteria and other animals it only takes time allowed. nothing you withhold can stop your cycle. nothing you add will speed it up, it'll add to algae.


-you have a big choice to make about self invading your tank or keeping it clean. cycling is about bacteria not algae, ever.
before allowing algae to take over your system, check the nuisance forum and see that algae takes over tanks of any age, it is not related to new tanks only. A huge degree of those entrants started an uglies phase, and it never went away.


-there is no problem with uglies stage cycling if you dont mind the look possibly well extended. thousands do this way, it is ok to repeat if you like. The above is simply a new option because we know cycles cannot stall, and cleaning cannot undo them. You can choose either way.

-see the fish disease forum.

your tank can handle fish on day 30, but the time you should add fish is much later due to links there in the fish forum. There is a certain order to adding fish that determines if they live or die from disease. Nearly all threads in the forum are discussing skipping the order of ops and how to handle

you cannot stall or mess up a cycle on day 30 wait having added live rock at the start, so test kit readings simply won’t matter and if you bought none, the exact outcome above will occur.

 

[shorediver]

OK thanks, brandon429 I think that's helpful. Good to know that there is a need to feed inverts/CUC more than just what they can scavenge.

 

[brandon429]

You’d be surprised how many disagree with my cycling stance :) but from those actions above your tank can’t be invaded with algae, you are kept out of the invasion help forums permanently, or at least until you want to be there from having allowed growths. At least there’s a choice now instead of wrecking 100% of new reefs with cyano and algae.

the system above references google cycling charts which were lifted from books back in the 1950s, 30 days is well tested and a nice start date in case testers which range in accuracy seem to still not be ready. 30 days is universal test override start date, since your cuc is in place thats the working confirmation.

there is less tank do overs, wasting start overs, by beginning hands on and staying that way until the coralline and coral coverage allows you to be hands free, we used to be told by rule to be hands off at the start but that really just causes thrown our rocks thousands of wasted pounds and new coral systems totally smothered. Knowing we can opt out of that by thinking differently will save you hundreds of dollars Im certain. Pretend that someone is going to pay you ten thousand dollars a month to keep your tank free of algae by force, by hand, never allowing any (lift up algae rocks, kill algae not super hard) lol / no problems with compliance if that was the reinforcement

you don’t have to work though the water for algae, messing with the params that govern coral health. You can kill algae outside of the tank by removing rocks as needed, and putting them back invasion free until your cuc takes over for you.

 

[shorediver]

OK this is a different approach to what I've read so far, but I do like the idea behind it. Gardening my rock... There is a lot of info in your post for me to unpack. And right now I am reading with interest your stance on rinsing sand - my next task. Thanks Brandon, I appreciate the advice.